Author Topic: Chatsworth Employees-COMPLETE THANK YOU  (Read 4153 times)

Offline behindthefrogs

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,756
  • EDLIN
    • View Profile
Chatsworth Employees-COMPLETE THANK YOU
« on: Thursday 15 September 05 21:06 BST (UK) »
Does anyone have access to anyrecord of Chatsworth employees.  One of my ancestors was Edward Francis Mills born Stoke Newington 1844.  He married Mary Elizabeth Vicars born Darley Dale.  They were both described as Gardeners or Nurserymen in various certificates and Censuses.  In 1872 they were living in Park Place Whitton but a year later they were back in Darley Dale.

I am speculating that they were in the employ of the Duke of Northumberland and moving between Chiswick House and Chatsworth.

Living in Berkshire from Northampton & Milton Keynes
DETAILS OF MY NAMES ARE IN SURNAME INTERESTS, LINK AT FOOT OF PAGE
Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Coupland, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley.
Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse, Stevens, Batchelor
Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline spendlove

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,193
  • I've not edited my PROFILE yet
    • View Profile
Re: Chatsworth Employees
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 15 September 05 23:20 BST (UK) »
Hi,
Think you are a bit lost.

First it is the Dukes of Devonshire who are at Chatsworth.
Darley Dale, is some distance from Chatsworth House if a Gardner, he would have
been living on the Estate.
Large house at Darley Dale - Whitworth Hall is possible.

In 1881 he is in Matlock, even further from Chatsworth House

On all the Census he is described as a Nursery Man, not the same as a Gardner on
a private estate.
See 1901 Census entry for him, it states Gardner not Domestic which I think confirms
the above.
Have you tried entries for him in Trade Directories?, because he may have been
working for himself.
Try:-
http://www.historicaldirectories.org/
Hope this is of use
Spendlove
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Spendlove, Strutt in London & Middlesex.

Offline behindthefrogs

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,756
  • EDLIN
    • View Profile
Re: Chatsworth Employees
« Reply #2 on: Friday 16 September 05 14:52 BST (UK) »
Hi Spendlove,

Thank you for your reply.  Sorry I should have said Duke of Devonshire that was a slip of the brain.  What I find it difficult to explain is how someone who was a professional gardener in the London area should meet and marry a woman from Derbyshire of the same profession.  Unless they were both employed by someone who had houses in both places with big enough estates.  Hence my fishing for Chatsworth (which incidently is also the family rumour for whatever that is worth).

 I will try to find out the owners of Whitworth Hall to see if that is a possibility.  A move to the Disley area in the 1890s also leads to further speculation but as you say I am probably miles off course.

David
Living in Berkshire from Northampton & Milton Keynes
DETAILS OF MY NAMES ARE IN SURNAME INTERESTS, LINK AT FOOT OF PAGE
Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Coupland, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley.
Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse, Stevens, Batchelor
Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Hackstaple

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,871
  • Family researcher
    • View Profile
Re: Chatsworth Employees
« Reply #3 on: Friday 16 September 05 15:22 BST (UK) »
You may find valuable information on this portal site:
http://www.genealogy-links.co.uk/html/derbys.html
Southern or Southan [Hereford , Monmouthshire & Glos], Jenkins, Meredith and Morgan [Monmouthshire and Glos.], Murrill, Damary, Damry, Ray, Lawrence [all Middx. & London], Nethway from Kenn or Yatton. Also Riley and Lyons in South Africa and Riley from St. Helena.
Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline behindthefrogs

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,756
  • EDLIN
    • View Profile
Re: Chatsworth Employees
« Reply #4 on: Friday 16 September 05 15:39 BST (UK) »
Stancliffe Hall now a boys school appears to have been owned by the the Whitworth family (of bolts fame) around the right time.  However this doesn't give me a London link.

Thanks for the link Hackstaple but it only gives me the tourist blurb which is where I always get stuck with Chatsworth.

David
Living in Berkshire from Northampton & Milton Keynes
DETAILS OF MY NAMES ARE IN SURNAME INTERESTS, LINK AT FOOT OF PAGE
Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Coupland, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley.
Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse, Stevens, Batchelor
Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Gardener

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,242
    • View Profile
Re: Chatsworth Employees
« Reply #5 on: Friday 16 September 05 19:35 BST (UK) »
They moved around a bit!
To be honest I have never found Chatsworth terribly helpful (altough they did once photocopy some old leases for me so I suppose I shouldn't grumble ::)). I suspect that they have so much stuff there that they will never manage to catalogue it and a general query is not likely to be jumped on with glee.
I don't think you should disregard the family rumour but have to agree with Spendlove that the census data doesn't seem to support it. The Chatsworth staff were pretty mobile though, you are right about that. And tbe Devonshires did own a lot of property!
There was at least one nursery at Darley that had countrywide connections - James Smiths was established in 1827 and supplied the Royal family, Kew, etc. At some point they specialised in heathers which were used for packing iron pipes for transport. (From "A Derbyshire Parish at Peace and War" which is about Darley).
I'm sorry but I can't think of anything to connect all the places that you have.

Rose (Black Country),Downs (Black Country),Wolloxall (any and all),Bark (Derbyshire),Wright (Derbyshire),Marsden (Derbyshire), Wallace (Black Country)

All census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline spendlove

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,193
  • I've not edited my PROFILE yet
    • View Profile
Re: Chatsworth Employees
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 18 September 05 11:13 BST (UK) »
Hi,
Have I got the correct Marriage for Mary & Edward, Hackney London Sept 1866?

Have you found Mary Elizabeth Vicars on 1861 Census and what was her employment?
Where was she living?
ditto with Edward Francis?
I think Mary E VICKERS, is at Parwich, Derbyshire in 1861 aged 14 General Servant,
Born Darley Dale, Step dau. Living with James Greaves 56 born Kniveton, Farmer 56 Acres andEunice age 36 born Darley (they have children of their own).

In 1861 Census there are a number of Vickers living and farming at Edensor, Chatsworth.
If the above info is correct, it looks as if mary left home and went to London. To see if
there is any connection to Chatsworth/ednsor you need her Father's name etc.


I think that Gardner may be correct about Smith's Nursery, because this was a commercial
operation not a domestic.

With reference to Chatsworth Archives, these are all at Chatsworth House, they could not
possibly cope with looking for records of employment etc., over the last few hundred
years.  I have always found them most helpful, buy my searches have always been about
land and Farm Rentals.  You would have to have more details and dates than you possess
at the moment.
Spendlove






Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Spendlove, Strutt in London & Middlesex.

Offline behindthefrogs

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,756
  • EDLIN
    • View Profile
Re: Chatsworth Employees
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 18 September 05 17:49 BST (UK) »
Hi Spendlove,

Thank you for your reply.  You have just taken me a step forward.  When I did the census searches for Edward and Mary about twelve years ago the only choice was the hard way using the original films in London.  I failed to find either of them at that time in any census earlier than 1881.  I obviously need to redo those searches using modern aids.

The Mary that you found at Parwich is fairly certainly the right one despite the name difference.  The clincher is probably her mother's name of Eunice which is repeated in her daughter's name of Eunice Christina Mills.

I am beginning to think that the Hackney marriage is the right one.  It is one of six possibles in my notes and lower down my list because of the spelling of Mary's surname. It looks like it is time to invest in a certificate,  and if I can locate them both of their birth certificates.

Thank you again

David
Living in Berkshire from Northampton & Milton Keynes
DETAILS OF MY NAMES ARE IN SURNAME INTERESTS, LINK AT FOOT OF PAGE
Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Coupland, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley.
Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse, Stevens, Batchelor
Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Gardener

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,242
    • View Profile
Re: Chatsworth Employees
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 18 September 05 18:49 BST (UK) »
There was a Unice Vickers bpt at darley, 24/4/1825, father William, mother Elizabeth Hallowes.
And the IGI has an entry for a marriage at Parwich 26/5/1852
Eunice Vickers  father William age at marriage 39
James Greaves father Isaac age at marriage 47

That all seems to fit pretty well with the census so hope it is correct :)
Rose (Black Country),Downs (Black Country),Wolloxall (any and all),Bark (Derbyshire),Wright (Derbyshire),Marsden (Derbyshire), Wallace (Black Country)

All census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk