Author Topic: Moneypenny's Grocer Shops - Everton  (Read 8076 times)

Offline Rob Volp

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Re: Moneypenny's Grocer Shops - Everton
« Reply #27 on: Tuesday 06 September 11 09:09 BST (UK) »
Hi Lynne,
I have been thinking, which is always a dangerous time!, I know I don’t have all the information and dates etc that you have but could it all be very simple?
Your comment about visiting Netherfield Rd in the sixties as a little girl means we are of a similar age (21 + VAT  :) ) so, if your Dad called Albert Moneypenny (the one who ran a shop in Netherfield rd) “Uncle Albert” and your Grandad was called Matthew then doesn’t that make your Dad my Mum first cousins ?
Thomas Moneypenny had four children, Matthew, Albert, William & Lillian, so if Matthew was your Dads Dad (your Grandad) then he would have had an Uncle Albert, an Uncle William and an Auntie Lillian.
Too simple and way off the mark ?
Rob
X

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Offline MissM

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Re: Moneypenny's Grocer Shops - Everton
« Reply #28 on: Tuesday 06 September 11 18:38 BST (UK) »
21 + VAT!  I like it! Better than my half a century...  :'(

I have researched my line back through wedding certificates and census information to make sure I had the right parents each time - it wasn't easy because some people didn't know their Date Of Birth and guessed their age every census - so my line goes like this:

Me!
Matthew b 1916 m to Enid Kidd
Matthew b 1885 m to Mary Roberts
James b 1856 m to Elizabeth
Matthew b 1809 m to Elizabeth Cretney

And as far as I can see your line goes:

You!
Lilian nee Moneypenny
William m Lilian
Richard b 1881
James b 1856 m Elizabeth
Matthew b 1809 m to Elizabeth Cretney


How does that look to you?   :)

Matthew B 1809 and Elizabeth Cretney seem to have had 6 children and we are both descended from their son, James 1856. (Others are Sarah b 1835, Jane Ann b 1841, Eliza b 1845 and Ellen b 1848.)

James b 1856 and Elizabeth had at least 6 children and you are from Richard b 1881 and I am from Matthew b 1885. (Others are William b 1887, James 1891, David b 1893 and John b 1894. I don't have any of their children yet.)

I don't know why my Dad would call his cousin who was 13 years older, Uncle.  ??? I wonder if his father Richard b 1881 was also known as Albert?  It took me years to get to the bottom of this because I was looking for someone called Albert (!) much older than my Dad when in fact he was only 13 years older. 

Now back to Matthew b 1809 and Elizabeth Cretney  - they also had a son called William b 1832 m to Emma who had a son, Thomas b 1869.

Thomas married Elizabeth Ann and had 3 children Thomas 1896, Lily (Lilian?) b 1897 and William b 1900.

As far as I can work out so far, Thomas b 1896 had 5 children which follow BUT I haven't confirmed these with certificates at all and I'm still working on this line. 

John, William, Margaret, James, and Elizabeth

These are the only Thomas's and Lilians I have come across so far except for the line you've given me so they obviously need more investigation. I have more Moneypennys from the Toxteth Park area on the 1911 Census which need clarifying too but I won't give you those yet because they're not worked on yet.

All in all, they all seem to come from Matthew b 1809 and Elizabeth Cretney. I have tried to many years to trace Matthew's family in N Ireland without success.  :( I've got loads of Moneypennys over there but no Matthews whatsoever.  The records are scant but more are gradually becoming available and I'm also looking for connections with a man called Hiram Moneypenny that I keep bumping into!

Well, that's enough to be going on with!  I hope it all makes sense!  It's been a labour of love that never ends.  I'm writing down the names you're giving me and trying to fit it all together.  Maybe we can do it with dates of birth if you have any. If you want to send me a private message with your email address is, I could send you some of the census information and certificates I have.

I'll let you know if I come up with anything else that helps!

Lynne x
MONEYPENNY (Liverpool/N Ireland/Scotland)
CRETNEY (Isle of Man)
KIDD (N Ireland)
DAVIES ( Denbighshire, N Wales)
ROBERTS (Liverpool)
WHITE (Liverpool)
Local History website - www.spekeliverpool.co.uk

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Offline MissM

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Re: Moneypenny's Grocer Shops - Everton
« Reply #29 on: Tuesday 06 September 11 21:02 BST (UK) »
Just a quickie.  I have found a wedding entry on Ancestry for Richard Albert Moneypenny in 1902.  That would clear up why my Dad called him Uncle Albert.  I presume his son, the second Richard Albert, b 1903 and brother to your Grandad, took over the shop from his Dad.

Now for Thomas....!
MONEYPENNY (Liverpool/N Ireland/Scotland)
CRETNEY (Isle of Man)
KIDD (N Ireland)
DAVIES ( Denbighshire, N Wales)
ROBERTS (Liverpool)
WHITE (Liverpool)
Local History website - www.spekeliverpool.co.uk

Offline Rob Volp

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Re: Moneypenny's Grocer Shops - Everton
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday 07 September 11 09:03 BST (UK) »
Hi Lynne,

Wow it is complicated isn’t it? You have given me a headache – think that means you are really my secret sister!!!!!
I don’t have any dates, except William who was born 1900, but from me to great Grandparents:
Me!
Lillian nee Moneypenny m Albert “Bob” Volp
William m Anne McFarlane
Thomas m Elizabeth 

Thomas & Elizabeth had three sons Albert, William & Matthew (who died a young man) & one daughter Lillian. This could be your entry: 
“Thomas married Elizabeth Ann and had 3 children Thomas 1896, Lily (Lillian?) b 1897 and William b 1900.”
 That is assuming it was “Thomas Albert” and you have not found any records of Matthew who died a young man. I am pretty certain Albert married a Lilly Adams

Will speak to Mum, Uncle Terry and also my cousin Colin over the next few days and see if I can find any dates.

Rob X

Offline MissM

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Re: Moneypenny's Grocer Shops - Everton
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday 07 September 11 23:59 BST (UK) »
Hi Rob, Good News!

This was really annoying me so I've purchased some credits on another site (pay as you go - quite cheap!) to clarify properly who lived with whom in the 1911 census and you are quite right.  ;D

Richard Albert b 1903 was indeed the son of Thomas b 1869 and yes, the little brother of Thomas, Lily and William! I had presumed he was the son of my Grandad's brother, my Dad's Uncle, also Richard b 1881 who was a Decorator in 1911! You're right about these confusing repetative names!

It shows them all living together over the shop at 69 Anthony Street which was a General Dealer.  In 1901 they were at 74 Anthony Street.  Another interesting but sad fact that is listed is that they had 7 children but 3 had died so one of them could have been the Matthew you talked about.

SO!

Your line now goes thus:
You
Lillian nee Moneypenny m Albert “Bob” Volp
William m Anne McFarlane
Thomas m Elizabeth 
William b 1832 and Emma b 1834
Matthew b 1809 and Elizabeth Cretney b 1803

So there you go!  We are now third cousins once removed.... I think! I'm so glad you shared your info with me because it's helped me to sort that line out so thank you for introducing me to Thomas, and in return I've given you two more generations for your tree!

If you ever want any other details or to expand on your tree, let me know.  I have enough to keep you going for years!  I now need to work out who my Dad worked for and why he called him Uncle!

Lynne x
MONEYPENNY (Liverpool/N Ireland/Scotland)
CRETNEY (Isle of Man)
KIDD (N Ireland)
DAVIES ( Denbighshire, N Wales)
ROBERTS (Liverpool)
WHITE (Liverpool)
Local History website - www.spekeliverpool.co.uk

Offline Rob Volp

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Re: Moneypenny's Grocer Shops - Everton
« Reply #32 on: Saturday 10 September 11 20:01 BST (UK) »
Hi Lynne,
Glad I have been able to help you fill in the missing pieces, let me know if you need anything and I will gladly do my best.
I have spoken to my Cousin Colin and he is going to chat to his Dad who was married to Dorothy Moneypenny and see if he can come up with anything interesting for you. I do know one bit of news but this open forum is not the place. (not sure how to PM you)
As I said I stumbled upon your search simply by looking for a photograph of Williams shop for my mum and have now got the bug for tracing my roots. Do you use a specific piece of software to log it all ? and apart from this site where else do you find your information ? I would be gratetful for any advice. Colin was really excited to chat when I rang him the other night, he is going to dig out what paperwork his Dad has on the Moneypenny's. We also know that it will be interesting, and no doubt difficult, to trace Williams wife Anne McFalane's 
family. We know graet Nanna Mac ran the Walnut pub on Walnut St and that her Husband John was an international flat jockey who rode for the Kaiser and also the Tsar of Russia.
Will speak to you soon
Rob X

Offline swannesta

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Re: Moneypenny's Grocer Shops - Everton
« Reply #33 on: Friday 23 November 18 07:19 GMT (UK) »
Hello,
Sorry to revive a dormant thread and piggyback on it, but I was very excited to read your Moneypenny research when it came up in my google search. I have reason to believe I am related to this line, and would love a quick chat to find out more.
Hoping you're still around...?!
Laura



Offline jimgillbanks

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Re: Moneypenny's Grocer Shops - Everton
« Reply #34 on: Friday 23 November 18 19:26 GMT (UK) »
Hi Laura, yes the Moneypenny family had a couple of shops in the Netherfield Road district of Everton, Liverpool. On Facebook there is a group called Netherfield Road and Surrounding Area and there are some photos of the Moneypenny Family and their shops. I didn't know any of the family as I was only a child at that time, but others on that site would probably give you more information. I have taken a photo from there for you, it is of Albert and William Moneypenny and their families.


Hmm, doesn't look like the link worked, Sorry. Regards, Jim.
Banks, Gillbanks, Fallows families in the  Furness area of Lancashire
Banks, Gillbanks, Cumberland. Westmoreland, Lancashire.
Betteridge, Liverpool,

Offline garstonite

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Re: Moneypenny's Grocer Shops - Everton
« Reply #35 on: Saturday 24 November 18 08:22 GMT (UK) »
Hello,
Sorry to revive a dormant thread and piggyback on it, but I was very excited to read your Moneypenny research when it came up in my google search. I have reason to believe I am related to this line, and would love a quick chat to find out more.
Hoping you're still around...?!
Laura

Miss M who posted the thread - lives opposite me - I have sent her a phone text - she will be excited to find out who you are Laura - good luck  :)
oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire......   sacht,helgoland  .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis..  jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford