Author Topic: SIT: Patrynomics  (Read 11854 times)

Offline Dolgellau

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SIT: Patrynomics
« on: Friday 23 September 05 04:25 BST (UK) »
Sorry to be awkward, but very few of my Welsh ancestors have "regular" surnames before about 1837.

Is there a protocol, or a suggestion for people searching for ancestors with patronymics?

I have put one in as a sort of "test" which looks like this:

PETER (Patrnm, father needed MER, c 1689);

Is this sort of entry OK on the list?
Is there a better way of doing it?
Is there a need for a completely different database for people without "regular" surnames?

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Offline Berlin-Bob

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Re: Patrynomics
« Reply #1 on: Friday 23 September 05 07:10 BST (UK) »
Hi Dolgellau.

Looks fine like that.  :)

I think this  is the sort of thing where we need more examples, before being able to say whether special handling is needed.

Should the need arise, we can discuss it further, and if necessary, decide on a different approach.

Bob
Any UK Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)

My research interests (and data found) can be seen on my website:   http://www.margulies-chronicles.com/

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Offline behindthefrogs

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Re: Patrynomics
« Reply #2 on: Friday 23 September 05 08:48 BST (UK) »
This problem of course is not just a Welsh problem.  If you go back to the 14th century in England exactly the same issues arise.  Here you will find William FitzEdlin son of Edlin FitzJohn de Burg.  Where the de Burg is not a surname but is simply being used to distinguish him from another Edlin FitzJohn and means from the walled town.  In another context some other ending might be used for the same person.

Living in Berkshire from Northampton & Milton Keynes
DETAILS OF MY NAMES ARE IN SURNAME INTERESTS, LINK AT FOOT OF PAGE
Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Coupland, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley.
Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse, Stevens, Batchelor
Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline D ap D

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Re: Patrynomics
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 13 October 05 12:42 BST (UK) »
True, but I think more people are likely to be able to go back to 1800 in Wales that 1400 in England.

One of my brickwalls at the moment is such a patronymic case:
Jane Williams vch John Morris,

Where Williams was her mothers surname and John Morris was her father. The vch part coming from "merch" - the Welsh for daughter - now long since died out.
How would you suggest getting round that one?

I've not put her into the table as yet.

D

Stuck with:
William Williams of Llanllyfni
John Jones in Llanelli
Evan Evans in Caio
David Davies of Llansanffraid
Evans: Caio/Carms
Jones: CDG, DEN

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Nor do I think that any other nation than this of Wales, or any other tongue, whatever may hereafter come to pass, shall on the day of the great reckoning before the Most High Judge, answer for this corner of the earth": The Old Man of Pencader to Henry II

Offline Berlin-Bob

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Re: Patrynomics
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 13 October 05 16:47 BST (UK) »
Hi D,

as the SIT is for surnames, why not just enter two lines:

Williams from Place, County
Morris from Place, County

You can add a bit more detail in the "Comments" text, if you think it might help.

Bob
Any UK Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)

My research interests (and data found) can be seen on my website:   http://www.margulies-chronicles.com/

Offline Pistolero

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Hey Behind the Frogs
« Reply #5 on: Monday 11 October 10 13:35 BST (UK) »
Hey Behindthefrogs,
What happended to my posts where I asked you about your coat of arms, and then I posted another one with a pic of that other Edelen Coat of arms I was telling you about. Neither are here?
Dave

Offline behindthefrogs

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Re: Patrynomics
« Reply #6 on: Monday 11 October 10 13:42 BST (UK) »
The thread was split by the moderators.  You should have received an email notifying you.  The thread is:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,488212.msg3463630.html#msg3463630

I have made three replies to your original but I have not seen the picture that you posted

David
Living in Berkshire from Northampton & Milton Keynes
DETAILS OF MY NAMES ARE IN SURNAME INTERESTS, LINK AT FOOT OF PAGE
Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Coupland, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley.
Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse, Stevens, Batchelor
Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk