Author Topic: What happened to the first Enoch Payne post 1843?  (Read 3065 times)

Offline andycadman

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What happened to the first Enoch Payne post 1843?
« on: Thursday 20 October 05 20:23 BST (UK) »
My great grand father was called Enoch Payne, so too where his father and grandfather. 

The earlier Payne’s lived around Burbage near Hinckley (Leicestershire) during the 1700’s. Most were baptised at the Great Presbyterian Meeting Place. The first of the three “Enochs” in my line was baptised at this place in 1813 although he was born in 1808.  However, after much research and checking I find him in Derbyshire about 1830 where he marries an Elizabeth Hanson (born abt. 1808) of Horsley Woodhouse at a place nearby called Smalley, (ironically both villages are just a few miles away from were I now live).  I think the reason why he was here at this time is connected with framework knitting perhaps?  Their first Child Mary, was baptised at the nearby Marlpool Independent in 1833 continuing the nonconformist tradition of this branch of the family.

In the 1841 Census I find them in Leicester (Slater Street) with his occupation a Trimmer. They have a child here called Enoch who dies at about a year old. They have another boy also called Enoch born February 1843, (My great, great grandfather).  I found him in the 1851 Census at Shepshed, Leics., with a  John Payne who I know now was his uncle (so where was Enoch’s father and mother?).  I have been unable to find either in the 1851 or 1861 census. Enoch (born in 1843) marries an Amelia Francis Smith in Nov 1864 in Shepshed. (It provides evidence that is father was a dyer and trimmer and was deceased).  I know much of the Payne history from then.

My problem is what happened to Enoch Payne (born 1808 and his wife Elizabeth after the birth of my second great grandfather in Leicester in 1843?  Did they both die? Did one die and the other remarry? I have checked many marriage and death/burial records without any success, (No evidence of either in the 1851or 1861 census).  If anyone can help me solve this mystery that has troubled me for a long time I would really appreciate it.
The main names that I am researching into at the moment are Cadman,(originating from Bulkington, Warwickshire), Smedley, (Leicestershire and Derbyshire), Paynes (Leicestershire, Yorkshire and Derbyshire) and Udall - you will also find several other names on my web page. I look forward to E-Mails from anyone who would like to share or talk about our family history.

Offline andycadman

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Re: What happened to the first Enoch Payne post 1843?
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 24 April 19 17:40 BST (UK) »
After all of these years I have found a possible clue to this mystery.  Searching through the Newspaper Archive just recently, I have discovered that he was a Chartist.  In January 1842 I discovered him chairing a large Chartist Meeting in Leicester. In February1843 he was nominated for the Chartist General Council. I wonder if this is a clue to his disappearance. So far I have not found any other evidence. Does anyone have any advice as to where I go from here?
The main names that I am researching into at the moment are Cadman,(originating from Bulkington, Warwickshire), Smedley, (Leicestershire and Derbyshire), Paynes (Leicestershire, Yorkshire and Derbyshire) and Udall - you will also find several other names on my web page. I look forward to E-Mails from anyone who would like to share or talk about our family history.

Offline CaroleW

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Re: What happened to the first Enoch Payne post 1843?
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 24 April 19 20:30 BST (UK) »
There is a death in Warminster on freebmd March qtr 1849 but he was 59

Deaths March qtr 1849   
PAYNE    Enoch    Warminster 8 339
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline mckha489

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Re: What happened to the first Enoch Payne post 1843?
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 24 April 19 21:37 BST (UK) »
30 September 1848 - Staffordshire Advertiser - Stafford, Staffordshire

“The Trial of the London Chartists”. Reports meetings in London chaired by Payne. Unfortunately no first name given.


24 June 1848 - Leeds Times - Leeds, Yorkshire, England

Earlier ...Mr Payne cross examines on behalf of the prisoners, but then right at the end, he himself receives a years sentence,


Offline andycadman

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Re: What happened to the first Enoch Payne post 1843?
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 24 April 19 21:39 BST (UK) »
Many thank for getting back CaroleW.
I have checked out most of the possible deaths and possible marriages but so far with no success.
I am hoping that the Chartist link may lead somewhere?

The main names that I am researching into at the moment are Cadman,(originating from Bulkington, Warwickshire), Smedley, (Leicestershire and Derbyshire), Paynes (Leicestershire, Yorkshire and Derbyshire) and Udall - you will also find several other names on my web page. I look forward to E-Mails from anyone who would like to share or talk about our family history.

Offline mckha489

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Re: What happened to the first Enoch Payne post 1843?
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 24 April 19 21:46 BST (UK) »
30 September 1848 - Staffordshire Advertiser - Stafford, Staffordshire

“The Trial of the London Chartists”. Reports meetings in London chaired by Payne. Unfortunately no first name given.


24 June 1848 - Leeds Times - Leeds, Yorkshire, England

Earlier ...Mr Payne cross examines on behalf of the prisoners, but then right at the end, he himself receives a years sentence,

Hmm I think quite possibly this is a different Mr Payne, although also a chartist, but this one seems to be in London in 1839

Offline Mabel Bagshawe

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Re: What happened to the first Enoch Payne post 1843?
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 24 April 19 21:46 BST (UK) »
There's an Enoch Payne on trial in Leicester in Jan 1869. 3 months for riot and assault but not guilty (as no evidence offered) of intimidation of voters and causing adjournment of poll. He was one of a number up on the same charges. Sounds like chartist type activities. However no age given so could be father or son!

Offline andycadman

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Re: What happened to the first Enoch Payne post 1843?
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 24 April 19 21:47 BST (UK) »
Many thanks for looking up mckha489.
It could be a possibility but unfortunately Payne is such a common name, without the
"Enoch" in front there is no certainty.
The main names that I am researching into at the moment are Cadman,(originating from Bulkington, Warwickshire), Smedley, (Leicestershire and Derbyshire), Paynes (Leicestershire, Yorkshire and Derbyshire) and Udall - you will also find several other names on my web page. I look forward to E-Mails from anyone who would like to share or talk about our family history.

Offline andycadman

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Re: What happened to the first Enoch Payne post 1843?
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 24 April 19 21:49 BST (UK) »
The Enoch Payne on trial in Leicester in Jan 1869 was his son.

Thank you for getting back Mabel.
The main names that I am researching into at the moment are Cadman,(originating from Bulkington, Warwickshire), Smedley, (Leicestershire and Derbyshire), Paynes (Leicestershire, Yorkshire and Derbyshire) and Udall - you will also find several other names on my web page. I look forward to E-Mails from anyone who would like to share or talk about our family history.