Imbeciles and idiots

[fizzybubble]

I have been puzzling for ages over a relative of mine who was in the workhouse from 1871 to at least 1901 (thats 30 years !!!) and on each census was listed as "imbecile" while other inmates were listed as idiots.

Can anyone please define the difference between the two for me ?

Fizzy

[philipsearching]

Hallo, Fizzy

My understanding of the difference is:

IDIOT - person of low intelligence ("mentally subnormal", very low IQ, brain function impaired by injury or disease such as alcoholism, Alzheimer's, syphilis etc)

IMBECILE - person with very limited or no communication ("severely mentally handicapped", severe brain damage possibly existing since birth, conditions such as low-functioning autism, possibly deaf/mute)

Was your relative on censuses before 1871 and, if so, what was his/her condition?


All the best
Philip

[fizzybubble]

Now this is very interesting. My rellie was in the workhouse as an imbecile but seems to have been perfectly normal before that eg in 1851 she was a scholar.


Could either of these have anything to do with a persons moral application at all.

Fizzy

[Jane Eden]

Hi

Imbecile    IQ 25-50   Modern term Moderate learning disability

Idiot          IQ 0-25                          Severe learning disability

Feeble minded (Moron) IQ 50-75    Mild learning disability

Those with an IQ of less than 50 usually need care throughout life and are unlikely to be educable in the formal sense.

From: www.paul_smith.doctors.org.uk/ArchaicMedicalTerms.htm

Jane

[philipsearching]

So it looks as though I got the terms the wrong way round - sorry!
Philip

[Little Nell]

The Gendocs site

http://www.gendocs.demon.co.uk/abbrcen.html

gives the following definitions for these terms as used on the census returns.

Lunatic: somone who is mentally ill with periods of lucidity.

Imbecile: people who have fallen in later life into a state of chronic dementia (sounds like Alzheimers.)

Idiot: a person who suffers from congenital mental deficiency.

Does that help?

Nell

[fizzybubble]

Thanks to everyone who has helped.

From an American site I got that and imbecile is someone of loose morals and an idiot someone with no morals at all because they dont know what they are.

My rellie was admitted as an imbecile and was in there for at least 30 years. I was wondering if her crime was to be an unmarried moter maybe....

Fizzy

[Jane Eden]

Hi

As I have said before when I first worked in a psychiatric hospital in the mid 1970s there were many elderly ladies who had been admitted when they were young and had an illegitimate child. They became intitutionalised and had remained there all those years. There were also men who had contracted syphilis or gonorrhoea before the advent of penicillin.

How medical treatment and attitudes to and knowledge of mental health have changed for the better.

Jane