The Parish Shame

[GAJM]

Hi while doing some research I came across the marriage of a couple Thomas Walsh and Elizabeth Shine in July 1875 Newmarket, Co.Cork, Ireland and they had a son two months later in August of that year. Now they were living in a very catholic  Ireland at the time and even up to 40 years ago pregnancy before marriage would be very much frond on and often covered up. So surely at the time this would be a bit of a scandal? Anyone any ideas just taught would be nice to get some feedback.

[aghadowey]

May seem surprising to us but such a thing was quite common years ago. Came across one case where (according to family tradition) bride was supposed to be pregnant when she got married. When I went to look for baptisms of the children I discovered that she probably was pregnant- with her 2nd child!

[GAJM]

Really that is interesting I know that the marriage of a certain late relation in the 1950's she was pregnant and the wedding was behind closed doors so no body would find out. Was thinking that the situation would be worst in 1875!

[Cell]

Hi,
 I have a  marriage in 1934 which occurred in a church and not in a register office as one would tend to  think they may do  in that situation in those days:
The bride had her 1st child just two months later. She would have been around 7 months pregnant walking up the aisle.

When I discovered it, It came as a bit of a surprise to me (as I had  known them well and would not have thought it in a million years ) . when I  took my discovery to my mum (  who's Irish born and bred)and asked her  do you think it would it have been a great shame  back then, the answer was no not really-  not as big as you seem to think it was . It happened all the time.
She seemed  very surprised that I was "surprised" about it    - I was just  initially surprised about it in this case because  the bride was very religious.
Kind Regards

[trish251]

I think there was much more "shame" involved if the couple did not marry. Like others, I have many in my 19th century families who had their children less than 9 months after the wedding - I have been wondering if  it was rather the "norm". I think much of what was told to daughters by their parents in the 20th century related to "do what I say" not "do what I did"

I've never thought being "religious" had alot to do with such events. I was a teenager in a small town where everyone went to church & almost everyone came out on saturdays to check the appearance of any Brides of the day!!

Trish

[GAJM]

Thanks for the replies and a few new surprises as well. My mother always told me it was a huge shame and I was thinking that a hundred years earlier it would be far worst.

The last few months I have begin to notice a trend. If a man lost his wife usually in child birth then a relative of his or the bride would come live with him to look after the children. I have found in several cases that he would end up marrying the girl who came to help and have more children. Often this girl could be a close relative in one case its a niece and uncle.

[oldtimer]

I too have a case of a niece marrying her late aunt's husband after moving in to look after the children 

Also I spent ages at one time searching for a marriage - I knew they were married - after all they were on all the censuses as husband and wife  Then when free BMD became available I entered their names, and was amazed to find their marriage, twenty five years after their first child was born!! I sent for the certificate, and there they were, in their late forties, bachelor and spinster of this parish!! I often wonder what made them suddenly decide to marry, after such a long engagement 

Also shows that you shouldn't believe everything you read in the censuses 

[aghadowey]

Found recently the marriage of a man and his 3rd wife. He was a widower with grown children when they met and had about a dozen or so children together before the children from 3rd marriage were baptised and parents married. Not sure if minister madde marriage a condition of baptism or baptism a condition of marriage but I was told that the father brought the first group to church in the cart and told the minister to start with them while he went back home for the rest.

[GAJM]

Well I think the worst I have is wife buried her husband on the 12th and married on the 13th of the same month fast worker!!