St Giles Criplegate - Cross

[springst]

Hi Everyone

Like most of you - headbutting a brick wall. I am trying to find the parents of Samuel Cross. Oldest known record is the IGI index of his marriage:

IGI Batch No M025771: he married Rachel Elmes on 4/12/1797 at St Giles. In hope of someone having access to the full marriage record just in case there are more details of the bride and groom.

Cheers

[Valda]

Hi

You can order the film of the marriage register to view at your local Family History Centre.

http://www.londonfhc.org/content/other-uk-centres


Regards

Valda

[nanny jan]

Hi springst,

Have you discounted this baptism record on the IGI?

Samuel Cross, birth 13 Jan 1770, christening 11 Feb 1770, St Leonards, Shoreditch, London.

(St. Giles Cripplegate is not too far away.)

Parents:  Benjamin Cross and Jane. 

An extracted record.


Nanny Jan

[springst]

Hello everyone,

I had contemplated ordering the FHC film, however, based on past experience, and because I am in Melbourne, Australia, this can be a tedious and not always easy task. I have the details - FHL British Film [380210] and may give it another try if I can find a co-operative FHC nearby.

Regards the 1770 birth with father Benjamin, I did look at that possibility, however, because I have my Samuel's Will, and a large amount of information about him I decided it was not him. I think his birth date is pretty close to 1765 from his Will and death details. I have also details of his two brothers and one sister, which I have verified from their Wills.

They are:
Osmond Cross - born approx 1763 -married Joan Hebditch in 1787 at Sherborne,Dorset
Joseph Cross - born approx 1767 - married Mary Boyce in 1794 at St Peter, Evercreech, Somerset - the wedding noted that Joseph was of St Lukes, Middlesex.
Elizabeth Cross - born approx 1770 married Charles Robins of Bruton, Somerset.

Joseph and Samuel were Timber Merchants for a large part of their life, based in Lambeth, Surrey, with their home residence in various parts of London.

Cheers

[Valda]

Hi

Straightaway with that many connections with Somerset and Dorset you are probably looking at ancestry for Samuel outside of London. London was constantly attracting people from across the county. It is rare to be able to track families back in London through the eighteenth century because of the difficulty with records but also because of the very high death rate in London. People died and London needed constant fresh blood.

With marriages you only needed three weeks residency to be of the parish. If the marriage was by licence there may be a little more information in the licence particularly if one of the parties was under age.

The IGI's coverage of both Dorset and Somerset is very poor - below 10%. Luckily for Dorset you have the online parish clerk

http://www.opcdorset.com/

Somerset also had one but it is a little less developed

http://wsom-opc.org.uk/


From other sources

CROSS, Osmund   
Christening Date:23 May 1739 Holy Trinity Shaftesbury, Dorset
Father:Osmund CROSS

CROSS, Elizabeth   
Christening Date:2 Apr 1738 Holy Trinity   Shaftesbury, Dorset
Father:Osmund CROSS

Burials
St Peter and St Paul Wincanton Somerset
19th May 1779
Osmund Cross

23rd January 1800
Osmond Cross

Blessed Virgin Mary Bruton Somerset
26th January 1798
Osmond Cross 14

Bruton and Wincanton are about 5 miles apart.

There is some coverage of Wincanton parish registers on Free Reg

http://www.freereg.org.uk/search/index.htm

e.g.
Baptism
1st March 1784
Osmond Cross parents Robert and Mary

baptisms in Wincanton for this couple start in 1777. No Cross baptisms prior that date on FreeREG.

Bruton registers are also on FreeReg

Shaftesbury and Wincanton are about 11 miles apart (use Google maps and check registers from the places shown in the area)

There are earlier Prerogative Court of Canterbury wills for Cross in Wincanton

Will of Mary Cross, Spinster of Wincanton , Somerset 01 November 1747 PROB 11/757 
Will of Samuel Cross, Turner of Wincanton, Somerset 03 August 1738 PROB 11/691

Unfortunately locally proved wills for Somerset were largely destroyed in a bombing raid in the Second World War.


Regards

Valda

[jennifer c]

HI Holdens Directory 1811 shows:
Joseph & Samuel Cross Timber Merchants Vine Street Lambeth.

Jennifer

[Valda]

Hi

You also have the member submitted record on the IGI - so to be treated with caution since it is not a directly indexed record from parish registers

OSMOND CROSS
ELIZABETH WHITE 
Marriage:  11 JUN 1761   Wincanton, Somerset

- points towards checking Wincanton parish registers for the possibility of Samuel's baptism.


Regards

Valda

[dawnsh]

Hi

I can check out the 1797 marriage for you next week at the London Metropolitan Archives.

However, the only info on the bride and groom will be their pre-marital status (bachelor, spinster, widow) and whether they were 'of the parish' or not.

You will also find out whether the marriage was by banns or licence.

You won't get ages (unless they were a minor), occupations or father's name unless they acted as witnesses and you recognise them.

Dawn

[springst]

Hi Everyone - Sorry for the delayed response. I was a bit overwhelmed by by all of the terrific suggestions and ideas.

Firstly thanks Valda for all of the research. I have taken your suggestion, and looked at the Wincanton Baptisms. Unfortunately their is no Samuel or Joseph baptised in the time frame that matches their births. I have taken note of what you said about the movement of people through London.
What I do know about this Cross family is that they were resident for at least three generations in London from the time of Samuel and Rachels wedding.
In fact several of the children were Timber Merchants over the next two generations. Others were Brokers and Agents. The son of Osmond - John Osmond Cross was very wealthy, and left a vast amont property and other assets in his Will.

Jennifer you are spot on with the 1811 listing of Samue,l and Joseph Cross. I have found in the London Gazette that Joseph Cross declined the Timber Business in favour of his Brother Samuel in 1821. The insurance policy for the business gave two address - Vine St, Narrow Wall, and Wharf, Pedlars Acre. Samuel was made bankrupt in 1831, and the business was advertised in the London Times on5/9/1831.
What I am not sure of is if your 1811 finding is Joseph, and maybe his father Samuel, or Joseph and his brother Samuel. Is Holdens Directory available online? - I would like to check before 1811 to see if there were any other listings for the business.


Dawnsh - it would be terrific if you could check the marriage for me. Any information may help.

Cheers