Baptismal Records for Deptford, Kent

[Romilly]

I am re-visiting this research to see if I have missed anything, and have been searching in vain for a Baptismal Entry for:

Ellen Hamilton, Born (Approx) 1845-'47 in Deptford, Kent.

On her Marriage Cert in Lewisham in 1868, she gives her father as 'John Hamilton, Occupation: Mariner'.

I think it quite likely that the Birth wasn't registered, and so Baptismal records seem the best way to proceed.

Romilly.

[Annette7]

Deptford would have come under Greenwich Registration District so surely this is her birth entry:

Ellen Hamilton    Dec.qtr.1845 Greenwich  Vol.5   Page 148

Baptisms for both St. Paul and St. Nicholas Churches, Deptford are on familysearch and Ancestry and no sign of a baptism for Ellen so she may not have been baptised.

Annette

PS Tried following her via the census and indications seem to be her father was possibly a Charles and not a John!!

[Romilly]

Many thanks for looking Annette.

Yes, - that's the Birth Cert that I ordered; which gives parents as Charles Hamilton and Mary Charlotte, (Née Edmeads). However, although there's a possible sighting of Charlotte and Ellen Hamilton in Greenwich on the 1851 Census, it gets tricky after that.

There is also a Death in Greenwich in (I think) 1878 of an Ellen Hamilton born 1845; which could be her. The Ellen Hamilton that I am looking at married William Dyer in Lewisham in 1868, and on the 1871 Census is in East Grinstead, Sussex with her daughter Frances, 1yr and William's mother, Mary Holman. I have Ellen Dyer on the 1881, '91, 1901 and 1911 Censuses, but haven't found a definate death for her.

Romilly.

[Annette7]

From looking at the various records, and your previous posts re. this family, it would seem to me that Ellen Hamilton bc.1846 Deptford (who married William Dyer) is the daughter of Charles Hamilton, Mariner (and not John as stated at marriage).  There was only one Ellen Hamilton born in Deptford at this time and she's the daughter of Charles and Charlotte.   This Ellen 'disappears' when your Ellen marries William Dyer.

So, you end up with a Charles Hamilton, Mariner, bc.1791 Kent (per 1841 census) married to Charlotte Mary Edmeades in Frindsbury, Kent 1831.   Has this marriage been checked?   Was Charles definitely a bachelor?   He would have been 40 at time of the marriage.

FACTS

1841 Charles with Charlotte and son Arthur 7 in Deptford (Arthur Adgate born 25/2/1834, bp.13/9/1840 St. Paul Deptford).

1851 - Charlotte 45 with dau. Ellen 5 in Greenwich.

I note a Charlotte Hamilton d.Mar.1860 Greenwich and wonder if this is her?   This would explain why:

1861   Ellen Hamilton  32   husband at sea
          William Hamilton 14                     
           Ellen Hamilton 15 Sister (which I believe should be sister in law)

Working back from 1861 census it has been established that William Hamilton, Mariner (of full age), son of Charles Hamilton, Mariner,  married Ellen Aubery 1/7/1850 St. Nicholas, Deptford so son William bc.1846/7 Deptford was actually born prior to their marriage.

By 1871 Ellen Hamilton (younger) had married William Dyer.  The older Ellen is still with son William 24.   Cannot find any trace of either after 1871.

So, the various records show Charles Hamilton and Charlotte Mary had Arthur (b.1834 but not baptised until 1840), a Charles George b.1836, bp.1837.   As they didn't baptise Arthur at the same time (waited until 1840) one wonders whether Charles George was sickly hence swift baptism.   I note a Charles George Hamilton died Dec.qtr.1838 Camberwell which could possibly be him.   Certainly not around in 1841 when he'd only have been 4.

This then leaves the son William about whom next to nothing is known.    No birthdate or birthplace actually known, no obvious trace of him in 1841.   So, was he indeed a son of both Charles and Charlotte Mary or had Charles been married before and William a child of that union?   If he'd been born ca.1831 surely being only 10 years old he'd have been with his parents and Arthur in 1841.   Hence my query as to whether it is know that Charles, then 40, was still a bachelor when he married Charlotte Mary 1831 or could he have been a widower.

Both Charles and William, both mariners, seem to disappear so does one conclude they were lost at sea?   Also, there seems no trace of Arthur after 1841 either?   Did he become a mariner like father and brother?

Annette


 

[Romilly]

Hi Annette,

Many thanks for taking the time and trouble to look at this so thoroughly for me. I've been puzzling over this branch for years! (Ellen Dyer, (née Hamilton) was my maternal G/G/Grandmother).

Charles Hamilton was definately a Batchelor when he married Mary Charlotte Edmeads. (I have a copy of the Parish Record of the Marriage, - in Frindsbury, Kent in 1831, but it won't attach here). I also downloaded Arthur Adgate Hamilton's Naval Record from The National Archives, and obtained the Log entries of Charles Hamilton's admittance to the Naval Hospital at Greenwich as a Naval Pensioner. (The reason for his acceptance there was that he had become blind). Charles and Charlotte, with Arthur are in Old King Street, Deptford on the 1841 Census.

I have wondered if Ellen Hamilton was actually the daughter of William Hamilton and Ellen Aubrey, - hence the 1861 Census entry... but it could be that as Charles was a Greenwich Pensioner and Charlotte had died...that could hold the answer.

Possibly Ellen just gave the wrong Christian name for her father on her marriage cert? (I've tried looking for 'John Hamilton, Mariner', but haven't found a definate match).

I just want to be certain that I am looking at the 'right' Ellen Hamilton!

A cousin in Australia and I have been looking at this family together, and have ordered several Certs that have been wrong... & so I am just re-checking what I have. (Hope that makes sense!)

Romilly.

[Annette7]

If the census revealed 2 Ellen Hamilton's born ca.1846 Deptford there could be a dilemma.   However, they only reveal one, birth index also only reveals one and their father a Mariner as is the father of your Ellen.   What are the odds on that?   I think it was probably a simple error either on Ellen's part or that of the vicar.

I don't have any doubts as to your Ellen being the daughter of Charles (and not a John).   What's really bugging me is William - think the fairies must have brought him!

Annette   

[Romilly]

Hi Annette,

In 1881 there is a William Hamilton aged 56, navy pensioner born Woolwich with wife Ellen aged 45 born Greenwich.  They are living in Greenwich.  Ref is RG11/744 f 39.

Barbara on here found them on the 1891Census with son William in Woolwich.
Ref is RG12/530 f 94

William aged 66 b Kent
Ellen aged 56 b Wandsworth
William aged 41 b Deptford

This might be her death?
Deaths Sep 1896  Ellen Hamilton 59 Woolwich 1d 741
And possibly William's?
Deaths Sep 1910   Hamilton William 86 Woolwich 1d 527

But of course this might not be the 'right' William Hamilton!

Romilly.

[Annette7]

Thanks, Romilly, for putting me out of my misery!

Certainly sounds the right William although this concurs with my earlier thought that William was born before Charles married Charlotte Mary and possible earlier marriage which you have ruled out.

According to navy records he was born 25/8/1824 or 1825 Greenwich although I can't find a likely baptism for him there.

Annette