Benjamin Davies/William Davies

[osprey]

I think register has Garwen Ucha and Blaneyfynon.

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/gaerwen-uchaf/rhos/llandysul/sa44-5ah/20783710

The 'e' may have been put in the wrong place, (it had been left out and then inserted) so could be Blaenyfynon and there's plenty of springs around for the ffynnon to refer to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llangeler

http://cistercian-way.newport.ac.uk/place.asp?PlaceID=139

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CMN/Llangeler/ParishMap.html

[Benoni]

Lordie...what a response! Thanks folks, far more than I could have wished nor expected.  Unfortunately, little of it makes sense to what I already have. My problem is I had a grandfather. I know, because I met him  and also...I am here! This grandfather is, from a genealogical aspect an enigma. From the very scant information I have on him I have found a family in Llanfihangel ar Arth who may have been his family. I am attempting to show that MY grandfather is the same William Davies who is alive and kicking at Llanfihangel in 1881. How to prove Llanfihangel William Davies is my grandfather is my problem. I have further information which may apply to the Llanfihangel family and your comments about my findings would be appreciated.

On the 1881 census we have William Davies aged 8 yrs living at Genlanfelyn Llanfihangel-Ar-Arth with Mother Eleanor 42 and siblings Sarah 13; David 11 Benjamin 6 and Bertha 5 mnths. Mother is listed as ‘Wife’ (Head crossed out) William’s birth place is given as Llandyssul Cardigan.

On the 1871 Census at Bankyfordd Llangeler we have an Elinor Davies ‘Wife’ aged 32 John 9 Evan 5 Sarah 4 and David 2. Again no sign of ‘Father’

However in 1871 we have in Aberdare two Benjamin Davies one aged 38 and one aged 35 both colliers/lodgers and both from Cardiganshire. In the 1881 census for Aberdare we have one Benjamin Davies aged 44 Boarder/Timberman at Colliery

Now, FreeBMD show a Benjamin Davies marrying in Newcastle Emlyn Sept 1861 and on the same page there is an Eleanor Jones. Presumably they were the marrying couple. Altcafan's info about them marrying in the Llanfihangel Parish Church helps....note one of the witnesses was an Evan and this name is carried on in the family....perhaps the Llanfihangel John is also officially a Johnathan.

In 1884 FreeBMD record deaths of Eleanor Davies aged 46 (June) and 47 (Sept) registered at Lampeter. FreeBMD also record the death of a Benjamin Davies aged 47 in Cardigan during the Dec quarter of 1882.

From amalgamation of the 1871 and 1881 information, assuming Eleanor was the mother of Granddad Davies, he would have had the following siblings in 1881. John 19; Evan 15; (both from 1871 not shown in 1881 Census) then Sarah 13; David 11; (who appear in both Census records) and finally WILLIAM 8; Benjamin 6 and Bertha 5mths.

What happened to John and Evan? What happened to William, Benjamin and Bertha (male or female) after the deaths of Eleanor in 1884? (Assuming that I am correct in my research about this family). There is a great deal of family tradition/oral history about what happened to William including stuff he actually told me. However I am not going to disclose it at this stage, but will wait and see if someone turns up the same story. If they do....I have my man!

[osprey]

any bmds for where the family are would have been recorded at Newcastle in Emlyn, not Lampeter. That death reg isn't your Eleanor. I've given you the 1891 for the family, only Berthier at home.

1901 5 Cambrian Place, Llandyssil RG13/5141 folio 21 pg 9
Benjamin Davies head mar 64 labourer b. Carms, Llangeler
Eleanor wife 62
Berthia Victor son 20 tailor
wife and son born Llanfihangel ar Arth

possible death regs
Benjamin Davies 71 dec qtr 1908 Newcastle Emlyn vol 11b pg 19
Eleanor Davies 64 june qtr 1903 Newcastle Emlyn vol 11b pg 21

John and Evan are both more than old enough to be working away from home in 1881 or there's a possible death reg in march qtr 1874 for an Evan Davies aged 8 in the Newcastle Emlyn district. There are several Johns born in Llangeler that show up on the census including one in Moss Side, Manchester in 1901.

[wilcoxon]

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=422826.msg2879097#msg2879097

 More info here.

[Benoni]

Oh dear......back to the drawing board  Thanks for the link Wilcoxon. In case you haven't already guessed....the link is to a previous encounter I had with this site. I had forgotten all about it. Well spotted. So, now the secret is out. I was holding back on the family tradition/myth/wishful thinking until I had found a factually accurate family and then see if it fit.

Thanks Osprey, for the info about registration not being in Lampeter. I had thought that the boundary between Cardigan and Carmarthen had been moved and similarly the Registration Offices also moved. 

OK...now for ALL the facts. William Davies was born abt 1872 who gives his place of birth in 1911 as Cardiganshire. His father on William's Marriage Certificate is listed as Benjamin Davies with occupation of Collier. He married in 1899 Atherton Lancashire. William did not have a Birth Certificate.

Here are now important very possibly accurate family traditions based upon what William himself told me. His first language was Welsh. He was orphaned aged 11. He went to the USA to live with an elder brother, obviously returning to the UK before 1889.

I had hoped that the family of Eleanor and Benjamin from Llanfihangel ar Arth fit the bill, but Osprey's identification of Benjamin and Eleanor still being alive in 1901, two years after William's marriage puts paid to that.

Any ideas from you guys as to a way forward? 

[osprey]

have you tried looking at any of the Benjamin Davieses who died around 1883?

Benjamin Davies 47 dec qtr 1882 Cardigan vol 11b pg 2
Benjamin Davies 58 dec qtr 1882 Newcaste Emlyn vol 11b pg 10
Benjamin Davies 63 dec qtr 1883 Newcaste Emlyn vol 11b pg 13
Benjamin Davies 58 dec qtr 1884 Newcastle Emlyn vol 11b pg 17

 

[Benoni]

Thanks Osprey.

The problem of searching using Benjamin as a 'signpost' is that I have no evidence other than family tradition (which so far has been found wanting) that he died when William was a youngster. My only factual evidence is William's approx date of birth, the actual dates and locations of his death and marriage, his Census statement that he was born in Cardiganshire and his father's name was Benjamin.

I have found another William who fits the bill, but does not fit family tradition and I will attempt to follow him up (or as has sometimes been said, "Run him up the flagople and see who salutes him) He is William son of Benjamin and Mary from Llanglydwen.

As a matter of interest, research of my paternal line goes back to the 1500s whilst my wife (who comes from the ancient Kingdom of Bohemia) can trace her line back to the early 1700s and I can't find any information on a man I personally knew......FRUSTRATING 

[RazzaB]

Hi. We were in graveyard at Llanbydder today and a Benjamin Davies who died in 1862 aged 56 had a son called William Davies who was born in 1848 and died in 1908. William would have been 12 or so when Benjamin died. William's Mum, Sarah, died 1853, again when he was young so orphaned by 12 or so. William had 7 siblings; 3 died and 3 survived. Thomas 1832 died 1834
Thomas 1835 died 1837
Martha 1837 died 1903
Sarah 1842 died 1892
William 1848 died 1908
Rees died 1849
Eliza 1850 died 1882
Margaret 1851 died 1853
Could this be the family you are looking for?