fresh eyes needed please!

[lesley084]

I have this family on the 1881 census living at bogg cott canonbie Dumfrieshire.
George Scott Head 42
Isabells Scott wife 35
Nellie scott Dtr 11
Annie Scott Dtr 9
Mary Scott Dtr 7
Betsy Scott dtr 5
Michael scott son 2
John scott son 1month

In 1891 I think this is the same family living at Kirkton
George Scott head 52
Isabella Scott Wife 45
Michael  Scott 12 born Ewes Son
John Scott 10 born Canonbie Son
Janet Scott 7 born Canonbie Daughter
annie Scott 3 born Canonbie Daughter

I have found the births of them all except Annie b abt 1888 Canonbie have tried in both dumfriesshire and roxburghshire but found nothing.
Any one got any idea's I thought she may be the illigitamate daughter of one of the children ?

In 1901 The family are living at Edron Bellshiel Berwickshire
George Scott Head 61
Isabella Armstrong  wife54
Michael Scott Son 22 b ewes
john Scott son 20 b Castleton
lizzie Scott dtr 23 b canonbie
Janet Scott dtr 18 b canonbie
annie Scott dtr 13 b Canonbie

Thanks Lesley

[bonjedward]

Did you find a death certificate for the Annie Scott that was 9 in 1881?
Many families reused names when a child died. As for not finding the birth certificate, I believe in the first decades of civil registration not all births were registered, alternatively her name might have been mistranscribed in the index.

In the absence of any evidence, I can't see any reason to think she might have been their granddaughter. After all, Isabel would have been only 42 when the child was born.

[lesley084]

ann born 1871 was my grt grt grandmother, who had an illigitamate daughter Elizabeth in 1885 that was what made me think she could have been their Grandaughter.

[bonjedward]

I would try looking for a marriage certificate for her, and also a death certificate (though she might have died after 1954 in which case you'd need to travel to Edinburgh to look it up) - either of these should tell you who her parents were.

[JAP]

Hi Lesley,

I see from several other posts of yours that you have a great deal of information about this family; it is a good idea to indicate this when you post a request, and to provide all relevant information - it would help others to help you.

From the other posts, it seems that George SCOTT m Isabella ARMSTRONG (this is in the IGI), 19 Feb 1869 at Canonbie, Dumfries.
Three of their children are in the IGI (the IGI extractions from the Statutory Register stopped ca 1875):
Helen SCOTT b 10 Dec 1869 Castleton, Roxburgh
Ann SCOTT b 13 Oct 1871 Castleton
Mary Catherine SCOTT b 26 Nov 1873 Castleton
Elsewhere, you indicated that Ann b 1871 was your ancestor, as was her daughter Elizabeth b 1885.

So presumably it is Annie aged 3 in the 1891 census whose birth you can't find?  You have not given the full details from the census.  Is she listed as SCOTT in the census?  Is she listed as a daughter of George and Isabella?  And, very importantly, what is her birthplace as given in the 1891 census?  Also, what is the birthplace of 7yo Janet as given in the census?

Have you found the family in the 1901 census?  Is Annie (aged 3 in 1891) still with them and if so what is her name, relationship and birthplace?

Have you found your Ann b 1871 in the 1891 census?  That is, was she still alive in 1891 (if she was, it would seem a bit strange for George and Isabella to name another daughter Ann, but if not it would make sense).  Where was Ann's daughter Elizabeth, b 1885, in the 1891 census?

If your Ann b 1871 was still alive in 1891, then obviously a possibility is that Annie aged 3 in the 1891 census might be a grandchild (legitimate or otherwise) of George and Isabella.  And it could be that she was registered under her birth father's name but listed as SCOTT in the census - which would explain why you can't find her birth.  Another possibility might be if she was born in England.

You have indicated elsewhere that Elizabeth/Betsy would still have been alive in 1891 - have you found her in the census?  And what about Helen/Nellie and Mary Catherine?  Did they survive?  Have you found them in the 1891 census?  If Annie (3 in the 1891 census) is not with George and Isabella in 1901, is she by any chance with any of Nellie, Annie, Mary or Betsy?

There are probably all sorts of possibilities but more information is needed first.

Cheers,

JAP

[lesley084]

Thank you so much Jap you have given me a lot of food for thought. I have updated my origional message. I have been unable to find anne b castleton after the 1881 Census but she registered the birth of Elizabeth her illigitamate daughter in Castleton Sep 1885 hadn't thought of looking for Ann's death but will go and do that now! But if she died where did Elizabeth go?
Any way thank you again.

Lesley

[lesley084]

Found the death of ann Scott dtr of george and Isabella 8th Dec 1886.
so looks like annie b 1888 could well have been the dtr of george and isabella, but still can't find birth! now will have to scoure the census's to see what happened to Elizabeth b 1885 Castleton illigitamate dtr of ann that died. I will go and get on with it before i confuse myself further.
Thanks to all who replied.

Lesley.

[JAP]

Dear Lesley,

The very best of luck with your searches.

That is so very very sad that Annie, mother of little Elizabeth b 1885, died in Dec 1886.  Who was the informant of her death?  And what was the address?  These might help? One has to wonder whether little Annie (3 in the 1891 census) might have been the daughter of big Annie (b 1871) and perhaps big Annie died in childbirth.  But who knows - little Annie may well have been the daughter of George and Isabella.

I do hope that you find some answers, sad and all as they may be.

Very best regards,

JAP