Amelia SIMSON or SIMPSON

[wildcats13]

I am searching for the death details of Amelia Robbie formally Simson or Simpson. She married John Robbie on 28 September 1825 in Arbroath, Forfar. The marriage banns showed that they were both from the parish.

On the 21 July 1826, she gave birth to a son, John Simpson Robbie, and I can find no further information regarding her. Her husband joined the 25th Regiment of Foot in February 1826 and was medically discharged in 1837, but can find no details of him ever returning to the area, although I believe he is the John Robbie that died in Angus in 1855. While in the army, he deserted twice, but the first time was in 1827 for over four months and when he rejoined, and his records show he was forgiven and not imprisoned which could indicate he found out his wife possibly died as it appears from census records, that John's parents, John & Helen (Barclay) Robbie, raised the child at their place.

I am also looking for confirmation of Amelia's parents. I believed they were John Simpson (1768-) and Margaret Rofs (1772-), however I have been told that it should be Ross. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.

Wildcats13

[Gali]

The recording of B/D/M in Scotland was not statutory until 1855 ... making progress is not easy as the OPRs are incomplete.  You may get lucky though.  So, with the expectation that you may find nothing, you need to spend some money on Scotland's People and look into the OPRs.  Her death may be recorded in either or both her maiden and/or married surname.  Use the wildcard facility - be wary of the spelling of 'Robbie' ... look into 'Robby', 'Robie', 'Robb' also.  Also, it's possible that the forename 'Amelia' might be interchangeable with 'Emily'. 

I doubt that the one 'John Robbie' who died in Angus in 1855 is your man ... there is a farmer in Easter Gella, Cortachy by this name, born c.1806, in both 1841 and 1851 census who died in 1855.  You will need to spend credits on SP to ultimately rule him out ... his death certificate should provide the names of his parents and you will be able to find out if they tally with those that your John Simpson Robbie is living with in 1851 census.

I note the profession of John Simpson Robbie on the 1851 Fetteresso census is listed as 'grocer merchant'.  There is a 'John Robison' (spelling from A/try transcription so check original on SP) on 1841 census, born 1826, listed as 'grocer apprentice' living in Brechin. 

Are there any clues from the marriage of John Simpson Robbie?  Any witnesses listed? 

[Gali]

Have you got both of these?
SP Wills and Testaments:
SC5/41/12, John Robbie, Weaver in Stonehaven, 1849, 5 pages
SC5/41/13, Helen Robbie, also Barclay, in Stonehaven, 1852, 5 pages

[Forfarian]

I am also looking for confirmation of Amelia's parents. I believed they were John Simpson (1768-) and Margaret Rofs (1772-), however I have been told that it should be Ross. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.

I think you may be confusing the 'long s', often found in older handwriting and printing, with the letter 'f'. The 'long s' appears as the first of a pair of letters 's' as in 'Ross', and also at the beginning of words. (It is still used in German, where 'ß' is a 'long s' followed by a short 's' - although it looks like e weird 'B' it has nothing to do with 'B'.)

I don't believe that there is or ever was such as surname as Rofs, and I think you can be confident that if you ever come across it spelled this way, it has been misread by someone who does not know about the use of the 'long s'.

[MonicaL]

Hi Wildcats13

Great info and suggestions there from Gali 

Have you got an 1841 census entry for John Simpson Robbie with his grandparents?

I wondered, with the Will entries that Gali has found, whether this was John Robbie and Helen Barclay in 1841:

John Robbie 55 (h L W) Linen Weaver Pens(ioner? Army?)
Helen Robbie 55
Address: Barclay St,  Fetteresso, Kincardineshire

How have you been able to establish the names of the parents of John Robbie, father of John Simpson Robbie and husband of Amelia?

Gali, regarding witness names for a marriage for John Jnr., from online trees, I think John S Robbie married an Ann Ballantyne in 1852 and left for Australia (?1855).

Monica

Added: OK, I am there on John's parents As Gali mentioned, 1851:
Helen Robbie 63, spinner b. Dunnottar, Kincardine
John Robbie 24, grandson, grocer merchant b. Arbroath
Address: Barclay Street, Stonehaven

[MonicaL]

Also, as Gali has suggested looking at possible name variants for Amelia, with Emily being a common one, have you seen this alternative birth entry for an Emily Simpson https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XB8H-Q48

Hard to say really what Amelia's parentage may be at this stage without more info 

Monica

[wildcats13]

Thanks everyone for your responses.
I guess I was remiss in not including the fact that I live in Australia, and that John Simpson Robbie is my gr. grandfather and he did marry Ann Ballentine.
I have the details from the wills. If our John Simpson was in the 1851 census, then he would be about 82 years old, and would hardly think he would still be working as a Grocery Merchant. However, it is a strange co-incidence that in 1851 census for John Simpson Robbie, he was listed as a Grocery Merchant living with his widowed grandmother, Helen (Barclay) Robbie.
I don't have a marriage certificate to confirm the witnesses for John Simpson Robbie's marriage, but will check with a fellow researcher who may have a copy. Will let you know. Amelia is definately the name listed on the marriage banns. She may also be able to confirm Amelia's parents.
John Robbie and Helen Barclay are the parents of John Robbie and are the ones in 1841 census, and John Snr. died in 1849, and Helen left all to grandson John Simpson Robbie.

You could be right about the death of John Robbie in 1855 as not being the right one. When discharged from the army, he was in bad shape with heart problems and nervous disposition. Because of his second desertion, he was imprisoned for six months with hard labour and forfeited his pension. So he was penniless and in bad condition. Hard to imagine someone in that position lasting from 1837 till 1855.

Wildcats13

[wildcats13]

Well, I am back on the trail again looking for the death details of Amelia Simpson, and also to advise that I think I have now found the death detail of husband John Robbie. It appears that he died in an Infirmary in Aberdeen on 21st August 1838 aged 37, where his father was born. Although his age doesn't match up with his age of 21 in 1826 when he joined the army, Family Search also has him born about 1800, and we don't have a definite birth or baptism date, so it is possible, considering that I would have expected him to have been hospitalized after being discharged from the army. I have found J.S.Robbie's marriage details on 13 April 1852 and he was shown as being a Prison Warder in Glascow, and there were no witnesses shown. This was about 12 months after he was a Grocer merchant in the 1851 Census. I have tried different variations in searching for Amelia's death on 'Scotland's People' with no success. I am interested in any new ideas to find her.
Regards,
Wildcats13

[Forfarian]

Family Search also has him born about 1800

Do not trust the age on FamilySearch. It is in the 'community contributed' section of the IGI, and it has been arrived at by assuming that he married at age 25. Marriage in 1825 minus 25 gives 1800. Also, whoever indexed it assumed that because he was married in Arbroath, he must have been born in Arbroath.

They have arrived at a birth date and place for Amelia by assuming that she was 21 when she married, and that she was born in the same parish where she was married.

None of these assumptions are reliable.

The only reliable online source for original records of births and marriages in Scotland is Scotland's People (SP) www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk so anything you find on any other online source must always be checked by referring to the original on SP.

If it's not on SP, you need to track down the original source from which the information on FamilySearch or any other web site is derived. There are some sources not available online, such as the records of the various breakaway churches, including the Free Church, and of the Episcopal Church, but none of these, so far, are online.