Marriage look up Merchant to Brewin.

[willsy]

Wow, it's become such a mystery I kept looking, was about to go to the papers tonight. Had tried to decipher Ellen Murphy from the links from the other posts, better try again with the fab stuff you found.

[willsy]

Carrying on your fine work

Welford Road Burials

T   564   C   
DIXON   JOSEPH   1873   AUG   12   62   ROYAL EAST STREET   SAINT MARGARET   30623   

BREWIN   ---   1873   AUG   12   STBN   BLACK FRIARS   FRIARS   30624   CHILD OF MARY

BREWIN   ELLEN   1873   OCT   13   62   LOWER ROYAL EAST STREET   SAINT MARGARET   31031   

2 deaths the same day

From the paper, having a guess
St Margaret baptisms
BARNES   MARIA   THOMAS & ELLEN   1853   13-Nov

looking at first names
BARNES   BETSY   THOMAS & ELLEN   1865   05-Mar
BARNES   JOHN           THOMAS & ELLEN   1865   05-Mar
but this is a day after the trial

Welford Road Burial

M   708   C   
BARNES   MARIA   1854   MAY   10   6MTHS   BURLEYS LANE   SAINT MARGARET

Lincoln bit

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name:    James Bruin
Gender:    Male
Christening Date:    1826
Christening Place:    HORNECASTLE, LINCOLN, ENGLAND
Father's Name:    Benjamin Bruin
Mother's Name:    Eleanor

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NFQN-2YF

St Margaret's Leicester baptism
BRUIN   JAMES   JAMES  GLOVER & FANNY   1856   30-Jan

[willsy]

Bit in the paper

Stamford Mercury 06 November 1829
Benjamin Bruin, aged 39, a travelling tinker, for stealing two new half-boots, a last, and a quantity of leather from the workshop of Mr, Joseph Burnett, shoemaker, of Kelstern, to be imprisoned to hard labour for one year at Spilsby.

[willsy]

sorry not any nearer John and Ellen but burial at Gilroes for Benjamin

Ll   72   
BREWIN   Benjamin   78   46 Royal East Street   Leicester   27-Jun   1910

1901
RG13; Piece: 2987; Folio: 145; Page: 24
with Susan Mattock

another child for James and Fanny

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JWCN-SYN

THEN I found an Ellen Barnes wid from Hull in Leicester

RG13; Piece: 2987; Folio: 160; Page: 16

with Florence Kilbride c1871 Huddersfield, married, daughter and grandaughter Ellen Kilbride and while I thought this is a bit mad, the unmentionable census is interesting (gdau)

[Dizzifish]

Hi Willsy....hi Rab65

You have been busy ! there are some intriguing finds you have come up with.

It is strange that Ellen seems to have had Betsy & John re - christened as Barnes, maybe, because in law she was still Mrs Barnes? ..... and the reason why Betsy/Elizabeth married Edwin Arnold as Elizabeth Merchant Barnes in 1899 ?

Poor Rab65 must wonder what has hit them re this thread......
There are quite a few people that have been struggling with this family.

Being as I have found a few more bits which might help, I might as well add them.

Willsy..... just wondered have you found a burial for Ellen Barnes? there is a death in Leicester  Q4 1908, born abt 1833.

1901 - Piece2987/ Folio 160/ Page 16 - 6, Lower Green St, Leicester
which has.... Ellen Barnes born Hull, her daughter Florence Kilbride born Huddersfield & GDau Ellen Kilbride born Nottingham.

1891 has Florence Kilbride here = RG12/Piece 3619 /Folio 5/Page 6 - Bowling, Yorkshire.

1881 = RG11/Piece 4105/ Folio 82 /  Page 10 - 6,Church Stile Model Lodging House, Castleton, Lancashire.
Martin MURPHY, husband, Mar, age 51, Seaman, born America.
Ellen    d'o , Wife, age 50 - born Hull
Louisa   d'o, dau, aged 15 - born Leicester.
Florence C   ditto, Dau, age 8 - born Huddersfield.


Births Jun 1865   
Barnes Louisa Dixon -  Leicester  7a 203

Births Dec 1872   
Murphy  Florence Columbius - Huddersfield  9a 363

Births Mar 1893   
Kilbride Elizabeth Ellen - Nottingham  7b 288

I had a guess that Elizabeth Ellen Kilbride had married in Derby in 1914 and someone on Ancestry has them on their tree with birth certificate..... born Nottingham Dec 1892, father : Joseph Patrick Kilbride & mother: Florence Kilbride, formerly Murphy. Interestingly, when the birth was registered in Feb 1893 Florence was living in Liverpool.

So, we have Ellen on census in 1901 & 1881, where is she in between years?
It does make you wonder if the burial for John Marchant in 1865 is the one who we were hoping to find on census with Ellen?

[Rab65]

Hello,

Wow-so much to try and take in.
I am very confused with Barnes and Murphys, Dixon and Glovers. I need to go through all this thread again. Just not getting anywhere with John Merchant. I need to recheck my notes. My head is spinning with all this. Well done and thank you.

[Sal1525]

Good evening everyone,

I was told to check out this thread and am so pleased to have done so. 
Rab65 it looks like your Betsy was my Elizabeth Merchant----I shall send you my email via pm. What brought about your search for Betsy Merchant in the beginning?

It is a complex and wide story in regards to Elizabeth`s journey in life and confusing to some initially but I am happy to help and even more eager to learn more about all of your findings in this thread.

I was always under the misguided belief that Betsy`s Mother Ellen`s maiden name was Murphy-as she was sometimes known --according to the 1906 Dr Barnado report--as a result of one of her Granddaughters being placed into care. (Betsy`s Daughters)
But she was a BREWIN? Rab can you give me more details about the birth please?

Well if she was a Brewin--and you must be right as the kids baptisms are the same--and the Father`s details, job and address all match its no wonder that many of us could not find more records for Ellen and John. After the births of her 2 children Elizabeth & John there was no more details to be found for her or John Merchant. I have been looking at this couple through a very narrow looking-glass.

Brilliant work from the volunteers here--great stuff, many of your details look fruitful in regards to Barnes & Murphy, Brewin I need to become familiar with but I have to shoot off to work right now but will definitely be back tomorrow.

[willsy]

Brilliant that you have found this as I was using your thread whilst looking, just on the case again!

Thank goodness Ellen married at St Margaret's, otherwise there wouldn't have been any details.

[willsy]

I think John Marchant who died could be the man in question, can't find anything for an Ellen Barnes 1908

BINGO

1871 RG10/2806/23/38

New Street, Wellington, Shropshire, England

John    Dickin    Head 40 Montgomeryshire, Wales    
Jane    Dickin    Wife  36 Montgomeryshire, Wales    
Maria Dickin    Dau 14  Warwickshire, England    
Mary Ann Dickin    Dau 10 Shropshire, England    
John    Bloss    Lodger 44 Suffolk, England    
Joseph Lovell    Lodger 34 Worcestershire, England    
David McNeil    Lodger 33 Scotland    
Luisa McNeil    Lodger 24 Worcestershire, England    
Martin Murphy    Lodger 42 United States    OCC HAWKER
Ellen    Murphy    Lodger 39 1832 Isle of Man, Isle of Man    
John    Murphy    Lodger 12 Northamptonshire, England    
Elizabeth Murphy Lodger 10 Leicestershire, England    
Luisa Murphy    Lodger 4    Leicestershire, England