Author Topic: Dowdy / Mcartney / Thurston in Victoria / South Australia  (Read 16006 times)

Offline cando

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Re: Dowdy / Mcartney / Thurston in Victoria / South Australia
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 14 September 13 10:45 BST (UK) »
I typed this up when there were no replies and had to go out so apologies if I am repeating any info now on the thread.

Marriage certificates in Victoria should list the following information

Marriages
 Date and place of marriage;
 name and surnames;
 conjugal condition, whether bachelor or spinster, widow or widower,
 stating date of decease of former wife or husband;
 children by each former marriage;
birthplace;
 occupation;
 age;
 residence (present and usual);
 parent's names of each party (including mother's maiden name) and occupation of    father;
 signatures of the parties and witnesses;
 signature of Minister. Prior to 1963 the date of termination of previous marriages of  the parties is also shown.

Birth certs -

Births 
 Date and place of birth;
 name of child and whether present or not;
 name of parents (including mother's maiden name);
 occupation of parents;
ages and birthplace of parents;
 date and place of marriage of parents;
 previous children of their marriage noting living or deceased;
 signature, description and address of the person who gave the information;
 names of witnesses;
 date and place of registration.

It is possible that the information given at the time of her marriage may have been misunderstood or the minister confused.  Her maiden name may not have been DOWDY at all.

Quote
Mary Ann Dowdy Married John Dowdy 1864 Victoria
on the marrage certificate Mary has her parents as Charles Dowdy and Mary McCartney.

Even her father's given name is different to the Vic reg and she is born c1838 according to this marriage. 

Marriage
BROWN William  43 Status widower  Father George BROWN
DOWDY Mary Ann 38 Status Widow  Father James THURSTON
2 Mar 1876
At the residence of John Sinclair, Kingston Not at Wellington which is on the Murray River near Tailem Bend.    The registration district is Wellington = Wel Symbol A* 106/653

Symbol A*
. Amended Entry. The Purchased Certificate will differ slightly re clerical information
·  Deduction of a Registration District
·  Deduction of a year where a new year date confusion was detected.

May I suggest you type up all the information on the Victorian marriage certificate and if you don't have any Victorian birth certificates it may be help you to purchase one to check her age and place of birth.

Cheers
Cando
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline cando

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Re: Dowdy / Mcartney / Thurston in Victoria / South Australia
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 14 September 13 11:32 BST (UK) »
This reg also shows Mary Ann's maiden name as THURSTON

Death in Vic
BROWN Diana Rebecca
Father William   Mother Mary Ann THURSTON
At Lillimur North 1885  4 Months  Reg#2051

Cando
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline cando

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Re: Dowdy / Mcartney / Thurston in Victoria / South Australia
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 14 September 13 11:47 BST (UK) »
Full snip....

The South Australian Register  Tues  1 Jul 1873
The Fatal Accident at Coolatoo.— The sad news reached Kingston by mail coach on the night of June 27 that Mr. John Dowdy, in the employ of Mr. A. D. Handyside, at Coolatoo, had been killed by a dray accident The young man was just ready to start for one of the other mail stations with a horse and dray, with his wife and family in the vehicle, when the horse moved off and in endeavouring to stop the animal, the poor fellow got between the dray and the corner of the house, and was crushed to death. The deceased was a son of Mr. Dowdy, a farmer in the neighbourhood of Lacepede Bay.

Death -
DOWDY John
27 Jun 1873  32 years  Status not recorded Relative not recorded
Residence Coolatoo  Death Place Coolatoo    Rob Symbol S  53/181

S. Supplementary Information. Additional unusual information included such as:
·   Previous Residence Listed.
·   Length of Residence in Colony Stated.
·   Deceased Child's Father is Deceased.
·   Deceased Maiden Name is Listed.
·   Junior/Senior of Deceased is listed.
·   Younger Son
·   Prison
·   State Child.
·   Guardian Named.
·   Adelaide Destitute or Lunatic Asylum listed ad  Residence or Death Place.
·   Unusual Death or amount of information on circumstances of Death.
·   Sister of Church if known as -  religious name stated.
·   Fuller details available re deaths at sea - longitude and latitude.
·   Final names reduced to initials due to space problems
·   Remarriage on post 1906 registrations unusual enough to warrant this.

Cando


Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline cando

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Re: Dowdy / Mcartney / Thurston in Victoria / South Australia
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 14 September 13 12:00 BST (UK) »
Birth

BROWN Edward George
23 May 1881
Father William BROWN   Mother Mary Ann (formerly) DOWDY (nee) THURSTON
At Avenue Range    Wel 262/139

Cando

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline cando

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Re: Dowdy / Mcartney / Thurston in Victoria / South Australia
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 14 September 13 14:43 BST (UK) »
If you have the 1864 Victorian marriage certificate for John and Mary Ann, it will have Mary Ann's father's occupation however she is not consistent  with her father's name so it may not be correct.  This could be her in 1851 however I also found a marriage in 1839 for a Charles THURSTON and Mary Ann KNIGHT and this is possibly the family below.  You need some information from certificates but in this case I wonder if they will be correct.

I also found a 1 year old Mary Ann THURSTON with a Daniel KNIGHT and his wife living in Norfolk however she was noted as born in county ie Norfolk and below it is detailed Mary Ann was born Middlesex.

1851 Census HO107/1467/543/ 37
Living 102 Star Street, Paddington Middlesex
THURSTON Charles Head 33  Carpenter  Born Norfolk, Higham
THURSTON Mary Ann Wife 32  Born Norfolk, Barham Broom
THURSTON Mary Ann Dau 10  Born Middlesex, Paddington
THURSTON Emma Dau 8     Born Middlesex, Paddington
THURSTON Charles Son 6   Born Middlesex, Paddington
THURSTON Louisa Dau 3   Born Middlesex, Paddington
THURSTON Diana Dau 1  Born Middlesex, Paddington
THURSTON Rebecca Dau 1  Born Middlesex, Paddington

Possibly Mary Ann's arrival as an Assisted Immigrant to Victoria
http://prov.vic.gov.au/index_search?searchid=24
THURSTON Mary Ann  22 years  Arrived Oct 1863 on the THERESA   Book  13A Page 252

Cando

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Offline judb

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Re: Dowdy / Mcartney / Thurston in Victoria / South Australia
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 15 September 13 01:39 BST (UK) »
There is another Mary Ann THURSTON shown as an assisted immigrant into Melbourne but I think she is too old, although shipping records can be inaccurate

THURSTON Mary Ann, age 28, arr 28 MAR 1857 per ship JAMES FERNIE, Book 11, p 338

And another fiche reference for Mary Ann THURSTON on the Theresa (as found by Cando)

THURSTON Mary A, Age 24, 24 OCT 1863, THERESA Book 14, page 265

Noting the death of the 4 month old baby in 1885, also found by Cando - the baby's forenames were Diana Rebecca, which are sibling names for the children on the 1851 census found by Cando.  Rebecca is not such an unusual name but Diana is not seen often.  May mean something - or nothing!!  :-\

Hmm - we seem to have sorted out that her surname at times was THURSTON.  However, the question now is - where did the MCARTNEY come from?

Judith
DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

UK Census information Crown Copyrightt, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline cando

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Re: Dowdy / Mcartney / Thurston in Victoria / South Australia
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 15 September 13 06:01 BST (UK) »
Just found an online tree ::) yes I know BUT the compiler has noted in the comments that he/she and other family researchers have agreed that Mary Ann is the dau of Charles THURSTON and Mary KNIGHT.

Also in the comments - All documents with the varying father's names consistently have his occupation as carpenter.

I did wonder if Mary Ann KNIGHT's mother may have been a McCARTNEY.

The OP has been logged in several times but sadly no feedback.

Cando
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline judb

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Re: Dowdy / Mcartney / Thurston in Victoria / South Australia
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 15 September 13 07:58 BST (UK) »
Goodness me, those on-line trees have given me a headache  ;D with so many different scenarios for Charles THURSTON and Mary Ann KNIGHT/S.

FreeBMD has a marriage
Marriages Sep qr 1839, registered Bermondsey district.
Charles THURSTON, and on the same page - Mary Ann KNIGHTS

The image of the register shows:
11 August 1839, at  the Parish Church, Bermondsey, Surrey
Charles THURSTON, full age, bachelor, carpenter.  Father: Jeremiah THURSTON, cooper
Mary Ann KNIGHTS, full age, spinster.  Father:Daniel KNIGHTS, farmer
Both give their address as 10 Richardson St.
Witnesses: Joseph Judge?, Mary Rec??

Judith
DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

UK Census information Crown Copyrightt, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline mhetfield

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Re: Dowdy / Mcartney / Thurston in Victoria / South Australia
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 15 September 13 15:30 BST (UK) »
Hello everyone,

Thank you so much for all your replies and sorry about taking so long to get back to you, had to find all the information i have on Mary.

Marriage 

26/12/1864
Name              Status         Birth Place          Occupation   Age  Residence  Parents & Occupation
John Dowdy     Bachelor     Wells England        Miner          23    Stanley    James Dowdy  Labourer
                                                                                                            Mary Eagle   
Mary Ann Dowdy Spinster   London             Servant       21     Stanley    Charles Dowdy Carpenter 
                                                                                                         Mary McCartney

Note Mary's Age is either 21 or 24


Birth Certificate

Names        Year       Sex     Father                    Mother                                       Siblings
John      10/2/1867   male    John Dowdy          Mary Ann Formerly Macartney     Mary Dowdy
Dowdy                                Miner 25yrs           26yrs London                            17 months
                                          Norfolk England                                                     Beechworth

 
Second Marriage

   Year       Name     Age  Condition   trade        Residence     Father
2/3/1876   William   43    Widower    Labourer   Kingston     George Brown
                 Brown

                Mary Ann 38    Widow                       Kingston    Charles Thurston
                Dowdy     


Note: Family info

John and his older brother Richard went to Victoria from South Australia to try their hand at mining. There John met Mary, got married (using the maiden name Dowdy and listing her father as Charles Dowdy) had two kids in Victoria (John and Mary) on these birth certificate she uses Macartney/McCartney as her maiden name.
John and Mary move back to South Australia around the Kingston area where the rest of Johns family have previously settled.
John and Mary had another 3 children using Thurston has her maiden name.
After John's death she married William Brown using Thurston as her maiden name and listing Charles Thurston has her father.