Elizabeth Francis [sic] KNIGHT b abt 1876

[Connie Sparrow]

Apologies - Ellen is CROSSBY rather than CROSBY.  It looks promising.  George, already a widower, was a mariner, consistent with the 1901 census.

No worries   CROSBY is more usual than CROSSBY.

George's occupation is all over the shop.  His dau gives him as an "attendant".

[Connie Sparrow]

There are several baptisms to George Francis Knight & Ellen, including the following:

Baptised St Thomas Woolwich, 21 Jul 1880

KNIGHT

George Joseph b 24 June 1874
Elizabeth Martha b 6 July 1876
William James b 6 February 1879

Children of George Francis (fireman) and Ellen, of 26 Chesnut Place.

Thank you

Hmm  I wonder how Elizabeth managed to become Elizabeth Francis when she married when she was baptised Elizabeth Martha.  It would account for why I've not been able to find anything more about her.

[Connie Sparrow]

That's interesting that the baptism is Elizabeth Martha rather than Elizabeth Francis 

It would be worth checking the birth 
Elizabeth Collingridge December quarter 1900 St  Saviour, Southwark 1d 41
and the death in the same quarter 1d 23

They may be relevant.

indeed

Elizabeth b&d 1900 isn't in Ancestry but I know who her parents were.

[Connie Sparrow]

Further children to George Francis & Ellen:

KNIGHT

1880 (31 Dec): Ellen Frances, St Agnes Southwark, b 14 Oct 1872, d/o George Francis (labourer) and Ellen, of 56 Lorrimore St.

1885 (17 Sep): Maud Fanny, St Paul Lorrimore Sq, s/o George Francis (hall-keeper) & Ellen, of 76 Lorrimore St.

1887 (28 Aug): Albert Victor, St Paul Lorrimore Sq, s/o George Francis (caretaker of mansions) & Ellen, of 61 Manor Place.

1889 (22 Nov): Amy Gertrude, St Paul Lorrimore Sq, d/o George Francis (porter) & Ellen, of 30 Chatteris Sq, New Kent Rd.

Thank you.

Hall keeper, caretaker and porter could all be descriptions of the same job.  He seems to have had a gypsy in his soul.

[avm228]

Hall keeper, caretaker and porter could all be descriptions of the same job.  He seems to have had a gypsy in his soul.

And he was a sailor/mariner too - upon marriage in 1872, in the 1901 census, and upon Amy Gertrude's marriage to Sydney Walter Bryant at St Paul Lorrimore Sq on 7 Dec 1919 - which George appears to have witnessed as G F Knight.

This would be consistent with his being a fireman (on a steamship), per the July 1880 baptisms.

[heywood]

Is the last time Elizabeth is known on the death of the last child?

1894 Infant James dies

1901 James Collingridge  with sister
1901 Florence Green with mother and stepfather
1906 Horace George birth
1910 James, Florence and Horace emigrate

On paper, it doesn't look quite like a desertion for another woman with the gaps.
It's a pity, that there is no record of his visits back 'home'.

[heywood]

That's interesting that the baptism is Elizabeth Martha rather than Elizabeth Francis 

It would be worth checking the birth 
Elizabeth Collingridge December quarter 1900 St  Saviour, Southwark 1d 41
and the death in the same quarter 1d 23

They may be relevant.

indeed

Elizabeth b&d 1900 isn't in Ancestry but I know who her parents were.

I got the birth and death from Free BMD and believe that they also show in the Ancestry indexes.
I see from a couple of trees that Rosetta Collingridge was born soon after.
One tree though has no details re Elizabeth and another has her alive as another child in 1911.
I just wondered if there is definite proof that she is a child of William and Ellen.

[Connie Sparrow]

And he was a sailor/mariner too - upon marriage in 1872, in the 1901 census, and upon Amy Gertrude's marriage to Sydney Walter Bryant at St Paul Lorrimore Sq on 7 Dec 1919 - which George appears to have witnessed as G F Knight.

This would be consistent with his being a fireman (on a steamship), per the July 1880 baptisms.

This is where corroborating information from wife and/or children is useful.

[Connie Sparrow]

Is the last time Elizabeth is known on the death of the last child?

1894 Infant James dies

1901 James Collinge  with sister
1901 Florence Green with mother and stepfather
1906 Horace George birth
1910 James, Florence and Horace emigrate

On paper, it doesn't look quite like a desertion for another woman with the gaps.
It's a pity, that there is no record of his visits back 'home'.

Nothing more is heard of or known of Elizabeth following the birth and death of her second son.

Florence's stepfather, William Edwin, was James' uncle.  The family was closer then than they were to become.  William died in 1908 in Colney Hatch Asylum of syphilis.

I know James' grandson, Horace George's son, who told me of the trips back to see Elizabeth.  Florence was not happy about it.  Unfortunately Florence wouldn't talk about her husband's relationship with his first wife.

If James wasn't returning to visit Elizabeth, it would be interesting to know what he was really doing but that's something we'll never know.  There's no reason to doubt what Horace said though.

James and Florence didn't marry until 28 October 1915 in Edmonton, Alberta.  They had a dau, Mina Winifred in 1912 in Edmonton, Alberta, then a son, George McDowell, in 1916 in Edmonton, Alberta, who died in Calgary age 5.

Elizabeth KNIGHT is a loose end that I'd like to tie up.