courtier

[Peewee]

After many many hours of searching without success I've decided to ask my fellow rootschatters for some help.

In 1879 a marriage took place between a Thomas James Bowden and an Elizabeth Ann Courtiour which was registered in Newton Abbot. Its Elizabeth that I am struggling with as in

1881 she gives her year of birth as 1855 born in Frogmore
1891 she gives her year of birth as 1847 born in Plymouth
1901 she gives her year of birth as 1846 born in Devonport
thereafter she gives her year of birth as 1846 born in Devonport
 and before
Looking at Devon inhabitants with this name, I have found that the surname can vary greatly in its spelling including Corter, Courtier, Courtiour, Cortyer. I have failed to find her in any census prior to her marriage. In the early 1800's there was a large Courtier contingent in Ashburton and earlier in Ilsington.



Can anyone find her in the 1851 / 61 and 71 censuses Please

Peewee

[Milliepede]

Do you know if she was a spinster when she married?  That may not be her birth name and you would be searching needlessly.

The marriage certificate would confirm her status and her fathers name.  Might make it easier to search back if she can't be found   

[Milliepede]

I can't find any likely Elizabeth Ann C* births in Devon around 1846   Maybe she had been married before.

[Duodecem]

There is an 1861 census  RG 9; Piece: 1423; Folio: 21; Page: 9. It gives her approximate dob as 1855 and pob as Charleton,(near Frogmore in the Kingsbridge area.) The family are: Samuel Caurtiaur   36
Sarah Caurtiaur   26
Samuel Caurtiaur   10
Elizabeth Caurtiaur   6
John Caurtiaur   5
George Caurtiaur   2
Mary Caurtiaur   4
The spelling of the name on Ancestry has been corrected to Courtiour. Elizabeth isn't with the family in 1871.
The problem is that there are several possible births for her on FreeBMD, http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Newton Abbot (which may cover Kingsbridge)-Mar 1842, Mar 1843, Both Elizabeth Courtier, Elizabeth Jane Courtier Jun 1855, Elizabeth Winson Courtier Jun 1858,  Elizabeth Courtier 1861.
No Plymouth births, I tried the various spellings and ticked the phonetic search box but got mostly Carters!

[Peewee]

Thanks to you both for your input to this.

Re your Caurtiaur's janfurness, I had identified and traced that family back to the 1600's. Why? It seemed like a good idea at the time. The Elizabeth in this family, born 1855, does fit the details on the 1881 census but in subsequent censuses she gives a year of birth as 1846 / 47 and Devonport as the place she was born, which raised some doubts in my mind.

I had also considered that Courtier may have been her married name and that she was widowed. Therefore  she was born under another name. I could not find a marriage of a Courtier (plus variants) to a woman named Elizabeth within the time period nor could I find a death in that name which could have been her husband where that person had an Elizabeth or Eliza as his wife.

I was hoping that I could get around the need for a copy of the marriage certificate, not because I am tight fisted its just that I live a thousand miles away from the UK and our postal system simply requires the postman waving frantically if he has mail and sees us.

I really do appreciate both of your input

Peewee

[Duodecem]

I did wonder if Elizabeth Courtier died and Thomas remarried another Elizabeth?
There are a few possible deaths for an Elizabeth Bowden though it's a fairly common Devon surname:
BOWDEN    Elizabeth Ann    29    Bideford Mar 1881
BOWDEN    Elizabeth    40    Stoke Damerel Dec 1886
Bowden    Elizabeth Jane    37    East Stonehouse, Plymouth. Dec 1888
Bowden    Elizabeth    34    Okehampton Mar 1890
The only marriage that would fit is for Thomas Henry Barnstaple 1885 so it seems unlikely.

BUT there was a marriage in Plymouth Sept 1865 between Thomas James Bowden and Elizabeth Baker. Are you sure that the Elizabeth Bowden in these censuses:
1891 she gives her year of birth as 1847 born in Plymouth
1901 she gives her year of birth as 1846 born in Devonport
thereafter she gives her year of birth as 1846 born in Devonport isn't Elizabeth Baker and you've been looking at the wrong Thomas James Bowden?

[Peewee]

Thank you for your continued interest. You may have hit the nail on the head.

I started with a Samuel Francis Bowden. He was born in Torquay in 1885 (although in later years he took 10 years off of his age).  In 1891 he is living in Fowey with his parents Thomas J Bowden born 1855 in Plymouth and Elizabeth A Bowden born 1847 born 1847 in Plymouth. Plymouth has been miss transcribed as Wyonsoth! His siblings are shown as Minnie M born 1880 and William J born 1882.

In 1901 Samuel is a "groom" living with his parents and siblings in East Stonehouse. He married in 1905 in Plymouth (to a Florence Mabel King). His parents, Thomas and Elizabeth A state in the final census that they had been married for 23 years giving a marriage year of 1888 which doesn't fit with the marriage of Thomas to Elizabeth A Courtiour in 1879. There is a marriage of a Thomas James Bowden to an Elizabeth Ann Graham in 1888 in St Austell (3rd quarter volume 5c page 161).

So, the Elizabeth shown in the 1891, 1901 and 1911 may have been Elizabeth Ann Graham. The Elizabeth Ann shown in the 1881 census was Elizabeth Courtier and the mother of Samuel Francis. If so, this would explain why she has a different year and place of birth. There are 2 potential deaths of an Elizabeth Ann Bowden after Samuel's birth in 1885 and the marriage in 1888.

Your opinion would be appreciated

Peewee

[Duodecem]

It's horrible handwriting i admit but it looks more like Devonport than Wyonsoth to me!
They are on the 1881 census in Exeter with daughter Minnie Mabel aged 1 which takes you back to the marriage  in Newton Abbot to Elizabeth Courtier in 1879.
If you are right, Elizabeth Courtier died -probably Bodmin June 1887 and Thomas remarried in St Austell in 1888, so Elizabeth on the 1881 census was a different Elizabeth to the 1891.
It certainly wasn't uncommon for a widowed man -or woman to remarry very quickly for practical reasons. It may also explain why Elizabeth Ann 2nd was 10 years older than Thomas.
There is a Dec 1846 birth for Elizabeth Jane Graham in Plymouth.
It's also possible that Elizabeth Graham was a widow. The 1881 census has Elizabeth Graham in Stoke Damerel, naval seaman's wife.
Free BMD has several possible marriages in Plymouth and district between Elizabeths and men surnamed Graham between 1850 and 1880.
Joseph Graham married Elizabeth Ann Hacker, Plymouth 1875
William Graham married Elizabeth Ann Hamley E Stonehouse 1872
John Graham married Elizabeth Ann Blight St Germans (Cornwall west of Plymouth) 1859
James Graham married Elizabeth Ann Martin, Falmouth 1854
There aren't any obvious deaths but a seaman could die anywhere. It may be worth trying to find the various Elizabeth Anns to see who fits!

[Peewee]

Brilliant. Thanks once more.

Peewee