Author Topic: BBC: Eddie Izzard follows his DNA Trail  (Read 17712 times)

Offline Jaxyfone

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Re: BBC: Eddie Izzard follows his DNA Trail
« Reply #9 on: Friday 22 February 13 17:36 GMT (UK) »
There's just a couple of things I don't understand.

How do they know that we're all descended from a single woman? And in any case, wouldn't that single woman have needed another individual to impregnate her? And where did he come from?

Also, if we are descended from a single woman, whose myriad generations of offspring went off via various routes to populate the planet, then where do all the other strands of our DNA come from?
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Offline AbdulMagicman

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Re: BBC: Eddie Izzard follows his DNA Trail
« Reply #10 on: Friday 22 February 13 20:27 GMT (UK) »
And in any case, wouldn't that single woman have needed another individual to impregnate her?

At the time our common female ancestor lived there were indeed many more people living. These other people's genes do still exist, but not on our direct maternal sides. The mtDNA tests talked about only deal with our ancestors on our mother's side, i.e., our mother, her mother, her mother, her mother, etc. Read:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve

Similarly, Y-DNA tests only deal with the our ancestors on our direct paternal side, i.e., our father, his father, his father, his father, etc and can only be taken by males as Y-DNA is only passed from father to son, and not from father to daughter or mother to son.

The DNA of all of the other people that were alive millions of years ago (including Neanderthals, etc) DOES live on in the form of autosomnal DNA which is found in all of our "middle" lines, i.e. our father's mother, our mother's father, etc.

The 3 different types of DNA test (atDNA, mtDNA & Y-DNA) are explained here:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogical_DNA_test

Offline GrahamSimons

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Re: BBC: Eddie Izzard follows his DNA Trail
« Reply #11 on: Friday 22 February 13 22:24 GMT (UK) »
How do they know that we're all descended from a single woman?

As a biology teacher, perhaps I can be allowed to explain a bit; some of the DNA experts on here may well object to some of my simplifications and analogies, but I hope this will be useful.

This response applies only to the female line.

In every cell there are structures called mitochondria. It's believed that deep, deep in the evolutionary past the mitochondria were independent cells which in some way took up residence inside other cells. The consequence is that the mitochondria have their own DNA; and that new mitochondria are only ever formed by division of pre-existing mitochondria, in a sort of parallel way to the method of bacterial reproduction.

Now at fertilisation, only the egg cell contributes mitochondria; the sperm cell does not. So each individual human's mitochondria are clones of the mitochondria in the egg, and therefore of the mother.

Every time a new mitochondrion is formed, the mitochondrial DNA has to be copied for the new mitochondrion. This is done by some really exquisite biochemistry and with quite amazing accuracy, but there is an error rate, although it's very small. Some of these errors have no effect on the body; a few are catastrophically lethal; some have lesser adverse impact. The copying process is not intelligent so mistakes are random.

DNA is a wonderfully constructed molecule. For the purposes of this discussion, think of it simply as a long line of subunits, which are labelled A, C, G and T; the sequence of these subunits ACTTGACCTA or whatever is the genome, the set of instructions for constructing and running our cells. It is now possible to sequence lengths  of DNA accurately and reliably, with high levels of automation. 

Back to the mitochondria and the copying process. My analogy here is the scriptorium of a monastery. Imagine manuscript A. It's copied out by two monks Brian and Charles, but they have the extra difficulty that it's in a language they don't know. However careful they are, it's likely that they'll make mistakes. This gives us manuscripts B and C, with different errors.

Manuscript B then gets copied by two monks, David and Ethelred - copy D will have the errors of Brian and David, copy E those of Brian and Ethelred. And so on....

So an expert studying the 20th or 30th generation copies of manuscripts would be able to judge (a) whether the manuscript in question originated with Brian or Charles, by looking for their specific mistakes; and by comparing the numbers of different errors (b) how recent the shared original was - for example, C and D will be more similar to each other than to E. To use an analogy within an analogy, the scholar could create a family tree of the various copies.

This would be easier for our scholar if all the monks were equally incompetent - for example, if they each made on average a one-letter mistake per page. This is unlikely with monks, but seems to be approximately true for the mutations in the DNA. So we can treat this as a sort of molecular clock.

Very roughly, the DNA researchers have been able to look for differences in DNA sequence and therefore establish all sorts of interesting things. What differences are there? How similar are mitochondrial DNA sequences from different places? And therefore when did different mutations happen, leading to the sort of deductions made in the Eddie Izzard programmes or on the website (see my earlier post).

The other fortunate piece of biology here is that the Y-chromosome with its DNA sequence is inherited in the male line only: men have one Y-chromosome which is passed on intact in Y sperm which if fertilised will lead to male children. So you can apply the logic above to this line, as was done in the second Eddie Izzard programme.

The behaviour of the rest of our DNA - the vast majority of it, in the other 22 pairs of non-sex chromosomes (autosomes) and in the X-chromosome, is very much more complicated, and forms the basis of the autosomal DNA tests that are also available. Suffice it to say that the DNA is shuffled and reshuffled every time that eggs and sperms are formed, and that therefore neat lines of descent don't work in the same way.

I hope this helps......
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Offline Jaxyfone

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Re: BBC: Eddie Izzard follows his DNA Trail
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 23 February 13 13:06 GMT (UK) »
I think I'm beginning to understand now. I'm going to read it again later when I've got a little more time to take it in. Genetics was always a weak subject for me and that was before anyone even thought about DNA.

And as someone who comes from the 'home' of DNA analysis, that's shameful.  ::)
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Offline ann255

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Re: BBC: Eddie Izzard follows his DNA Trail
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 23 February 13 19:34 GMT (UK) »
Thank you Graham for your explanation, it has helped me understand a little more.
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Offline GrahamSimons

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Re: BBC: Eddie Izzard follows his DNA Trail
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 23 February 13 21:15 GMT (UK) »
Delighted to help. Today is almost exactly the 60th anniversary of the discovery of the structure of DNA. Amazing the changes that have happened in that time. Molecular biology has become a powerful new science: and it's impressive that this was foreshadowed in the original Watson and Crick paper in Nature.
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Offline Sandymc47

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Re: BBC: Eddie Izzard follows his DNA Trail
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 23 February 13 21:55 GMT (UK) »
I love learning about DNA and the Ancestors.  What I had learnt about the One Woman
for all humans was that there was about 20,000 people in the whole World at one time
just after the Yellowstone Park blew up.  The World was covered by ash and darkness and lots of things died off.
What I presume happened was  that A Woman then gave birth to say 10 daughters.  She then would have the multiplication you needed to spread humans around the planet as it did happen
through many thousands of years.  We have learnt from looking for our Ancestors that even 15 children was normal in the Victorian times. I presume it doesnt mean she had them all from the same male donor.  That would give them a good chance of surviving due to the different DNA
that each of these children had although they had the same mitrochondria. So sisters would continue the female line and still be able to breed with different males. I would imagine it was similar to the family life of many matriacal animals who treasure their breeding females like Wolves and Meercats and have lots of males to look after them and protect them.  Thats my interpretation

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Offline DevonCruwys

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Re: BBC: Eddie Izzard follows his DNA Trail
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 24 February 13 21:55 GMT (UK) »

I would also have liked to know what it is on the DNA sequence that indicates Neanderthal ancestors. Is it just on one part of the DNA or spread all over it, what do you look for.


The second programme was rather confusing. It purported to document Eddie Izzard's paternal line. However, there is no Neanderthal DNA on the human Y-chromosome or in human mitochondrial DNA. There are traces of Neanderthal DNA in all non-Africans but the Neanderthal is found in autosomal DNA. I don't know why they made such a fuss of Eddie Izzard's Neanderthal percentage as it was nothing out of the ordinary. The 23andMe test and the new Geno 2.0 test both give you your Neanderthal percentages. I am supposedly 2.5% Neanderthal. I've tried to include a screenshot but I'm not sure if it will come out.

The Geno 2.0 test also gives you your Denisovan percentage, but this seems to be rather experimental and I'm not sure that the results are accurate.

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Offline DevonCruwys

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Re: BBC: Eddie Izzard follows his DNA Trail
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 24 February 13 22:04 GMT (UK) »
I should also add the the Izzard programme will soon be completely out of date. There is a new paper coming out this week in the American Journal of Human Genetics from Michael Hammer's lab at the University of Arizona which now puts the date of Y-chromosomal Adam at over 300,000 years before present. In the Izzard programme they gave the date as 142,000 years before present. Michael Hammer was one of the speakers in the DNA workshop at this year's Who Do You Think You Are? Live.
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