Charles Thorney - Army Service Corps

[CelticMom]

My great great grandfather Charles Thorney was born 1855 in Walford, Herefordshire.

In 1874 age 19 he enlisted in the army - Army Service Corps, however on his WW1 pension record, it seems he enlisted under the name George Abbott, and there is a letter in his WW1 pension record from him stating that he used this false name.

He also re enlisted later on but this time lied about his age making himself younger. I also have this WW1 pension record which is quite clear it is him.

Then I also have his service record from the British Army Service Records 1760-1913 online.

What I am trying to discover is why he would of used a fake name when he enlisted at age 19. Is there any more detailed army record I can obtain for him, other than the ones mentioned.

I will be grateful of your input/advice.

[t mo]

well if he was born in 1855 and went right through ww1 that would mean he was 63 in 1918 i would think even if he lied about his age anyone could tell he was well passed the age to be fighting in ww1 are you sure you,ve got the right info for him
trevor

[CelticMom]

yep is definately the right/same guy I have no doubt about that.

My main query is why he made up a false name George Abbott when he first enlisted in 1874. I see no reason for him to of lied being on 19 years old at the time.

[km1971]

If you have his attestation papers it records on Page 1 the answers to numerous questions. Men enlisted with an alias if they were lying to one of the questions - criminal record, on the run from the police, apprentice, member of the militia, deserted from previous service, running away from a wife etc.

What happened would depend on the nature of the lie, plus when it was discovered. If it was after sufficient time the army would not take any action, and just start to record him with his correct name. If it is not still in his records you will probably never find out.

You have the only records available in army records at least - except if there is another set under his real name for a deserter say.

Ken

[CelticMom]

Thanks Ken,

I am presuming his attestation papers would  be among the WW1 pensions records from ancestry or the ones on findmypast if it existed?

I can't see anything among either of these records that asks some of the questions you have said. Apart from previous service and whether they have ever been in prison. But of course that gives no clues whatsoever.

I can email you the army records I have on him where you will see the letter written by himself declaring that he enlisted under a false name if it will help with my query. I must admit to not being very clued up when it comes to service documents.

I could not find any WW1 service record for him on ancestry, only a pension record. But as mentioned did find a service record for him on findmypast.

[CelticMom]

Still never managed to solve this.

It is baffling me why he used a false name. I can find him in all census and can't see any known reason why he would make up a false name.

[km1971]

One outstanding confusion you appear to have is that there are two types of record. The attestation papers are part of his 'service record'. They do not form a second series

Normally there is only one service record. It will be on either Findmypast or Ancestry depending upon when he was discharged. There may a record in both series if he was discharged before 31 December 1913, and he re-enlisted for WW1. Sometimes even with a gap in service they may have reopened his pre WW1 record. In which case his pre WW1 service will be on his 'WW1' record.

Pension record is just another name for service record.

Ken

[CelticMom]

One outstanding confusion you appear to have is that there are two types of record. The attestation papers are part of his 'service record'. They do not form a second series

Normally there is only one service record. It will be on either Findmypast or Ancestry depending upon when he was discharged. There may a record in both series if he was discharged before 31 December 1913, and he re-enlisted for WW1. Sometimes even with a gap in service they may have reopened his pre WW1 record. In which case his pre WW1 service will be on his 'WW1' record.

Pension record is just another name for service record.

Ken

What I meant was nothing appears for him in the service records on ancestry. But there is two records for him in the pension records and then a record for him too on findmypast. He lied about his age on one of the records, but I know it is the same person, because of the addresses and persons named.

I am just interested in trying to find out why he used a false name and then revealed his real name as his letter attached in his record shows. His son lived a life of false names, so I wonder if it was a learnt trait from his father.