Author Topic: A case of a missing baptism?? Opinions sought.  (Read 1885 times)

Offline JosiahS

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,459
    • View Profile
A case of a missing baptism?? Opinions sought.
« on: Saturday 26 April 08 17:35 BST (UK) »
Hello there!

William Jones married Elizabeth Appleby in Sunderland in 1789.  They had numerous children many of whom were baptised in the 1798-1812 period.  On each of these William is from Boston, and Elizabeth 'of this parish', i.e. Sunderland.  This couple are my direct ancestors.

I had presumed before I found Elizabeth's death reference that she was the Elizabeth Appleby born in Sunderland in 1762, daughter of Thomas A and Anne Bainbridge, however, when she died in 1811 Elizabeth was just 41, giving a date of birth of 1770 - she had also last given birth in August 1809 which would make the earlier date less likely.

After Elizabeth's death William married again to an Ann Linton (Lintell on the IGI).  She was a widow - her maiden name was Appleby.  She was still alive at the time of the censuses and age evidence points to her being the daughter of Francis Appleby and Mary Side b 1776.  William had one Francis Jones with Elizabeth who died young, and another with Ann, who did too.

William died in 1831 aged 66 - buried on the same day from the same address was a Robert Appleby, aged 27 - he would be the one who is the grandson of Francis and Mary, via their son Francis.  William and Anne's first daughter was named Mary.

I know if was common for a widower to marry his late wife's sister and I think this is what has happened here, but I cannot find a baptism for Elizabeth.  Francis and Mary had a number of children but there are no baptisms for children belonging to them between 1768 and 1774.

I have never found a baptism for William Jones so I don't know what his parents were called.

Can I assume that Elizabeth is the daughter of Francis and Mary, and the sister of Ann Appleby? 

What would you do?

Ashley
DU: Jones, Miller, Laverick, Orwin, Burn, Finlay, Robson, Robinson, Jobling, Fenwick, Spoor, Saunders, Billingsley, Appleby
NB: Pickard, Gilchrist, Curry, Heron, Thompson, Bell, Henderson, Aynsley
CU: Bell, Armstrong, Parker
SY: Saunders, Bartlett, Ellis
SX: Bartlett, Cager
BK: Saunders
NY: Miller (Swaledale), Raw
ALL CENSUS INFORMATION CONTAINED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT FROM www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Tricia_2

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,267
  • "Family ~ link to our past, bridge to our future"
    • View Profile
Re: A case of a missing baptism?? Opinions sought.
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 26 April 08 17:55 BST (UK) »
It's certainly possible, but I'm not sure that you can assume that it's correct.

Are you absolutely certain that Ann is the daughter of Francis & Mary?
And you did have reason to think that Elizabeth might be the daughter of Thomas & Ann. Maybe she is? Ages are not reliable.

Not sure.
Worcs / Glos: Neal Neale Jeynes Jeens Geans Harris Roper Ropier Colley Dyer Heeks Bayzand Hampton Bishop Cole Elton Littlehales McGowan
Glamorgam: Hampton Thornton Svombo Swambo Swanbo Keefe O Keefe Shanahan Shannon Doyle Maldoon Muldoon Davies Llewellyn Jones
Birmingham: Neale Sarjant Cole Hiley Berridge Tirebuck

Offline JosiahS

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,459
    • View Profile
Re: A case of a missing baptism?? Opinions sought.
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 26 April 08 18:15 BST (UK) »
Hi Tricia

There are only 2 options for Ann's baptism - one in 1774 and one in 1776 with the child born in 1774.

The parents of one are Robert and Jane, and of the other, Francis and Mary.

Ann called her first daughter Mary (from her first marriage) and her first son, who was from her second marriage, was called Francis.  She then had 2 more sons but neither was a Robert so I assumed that Francis would be her father.

Ashley
DU: Jones, Miller, Laverick, Orwin, Burn, Finlay, Robson, Robinson, Jobling, Fenwick, Spoor, Saunders, Billingsley, Appleby
NB: Pickard, Gilchrist, Curry, Heron, Thompson, Bell, Henderson, Aynsley
CU: Bell, Armstrong, Parker
SY: Saunders, Bartlett, Ellis
SX: Bartlett, Cager
BK: Saunders
NY: Miller (Swaledale), Raw
ALL CENSUS INFORMATION CONTAINED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT FROM www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline stanmapstone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,798
    • View Profile
Re: A case of a missing baptism?? Opinions sought.
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 26 April 08 19:18 BST (UK) »
Hello there!

I know if was common for a widower to marry his late wife's sister and Ashley

Before 1835 such a marriage was a violation of Canon Law, and after the 1835 Act a violation of Civil Law.

These marriages were illegal from 1835 until the Marriage (Prohibited
Degrees of Relationship) Act 1907  that is the Deceased Wife's Sister Marriage Act, 1907


Stan
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline JosiahS

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,459
    • View Profile
Re: A case of a missing baptism?? Opinions sought.
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 26 April 08 22:09 BST (UK) »
Hi Stan

Yes, I realise that but I have several in my tree

Should I report them?

Ashley
DU: Jones, Miller, Laverick, Orwin, Burn, Finlay, Robson, Robinson, Jobling, Fenwick, Spoor, Saunders, Billingsley, Appleby
NB: Pickard, Gilchrist, Curry, Heron, Thompson, Bell, Henderson, Aynsley
CU: Bell, Armstrong, Parker
SY: Saunders, Bartlett, Ellis
SX: Bartlett, Cager
BK: Saunders
NY: Miller (Swaledale), Raw
ALL CENSUS INFORMATION CONTAINED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT FROM www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline rob b j brown

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 21
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: A case of a missing baptism?? Opinions sought.
« Reply #5 on: Friday 28 March 14 20:42 GMT (UK) »
hi my names rob i have just started on this family of the appleby,s my side is from francis appleby and mary side they son francis appleby who married hannah forrest may i ask how far have you getting back with the appleby family as i have a few dates like the marriage of francis and mary side in 27 sept 1767 in holy trinity sunderland and a few dates of there son,s and dau,s but not of elizabeth  appleby yet  ROB

Offline JosiahS

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,459
    • View Profile
Re: A case of a missing baptism?? Opinions sought.
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 01 April 14 14:05 BST (UK) »
Hi Rob

Thanks for getting in touch.

Appleby is quite a common name in the Sunderland area so there are plenty of them about.

Even though this thread started in 2008 I am no nearer solving my problem about Elizabeth.  I know she was born in Sunderland from the baptisms of her children when her native parish was marked, and I know her age at death in 1811 showed her as 41.  I also know that she last gave birth in 1809 so she is unlikely to have been born in 1762.

It seems I am unlikely to resolve this.

Cheers

Ashley
DU: Jones, Miller, Laverick, Orwin, Burn, Finlay, Robson, Robinson, Jobling, Fenwick, Spoor, Saunders, Billingsley, Appleby
NB: Pickard, Gilchrist, Curry, Heron, Thompson, Bell, Henderson, Aynsley
CU: Bell, Armstrong, Parker
SY: Saunders, Bartlett, Ellis
SX: Bartlett, Cager
BK: Saunders
NY: Miller (Swaledale), Raw
ALL CENSUS INFORMATION CONTAINED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT FROM www.nationalarchives.gov.uk