Richard Christian born Queens County about 1828

[timnpip]

Hi People

Does anyone have a Richard Christian in their family tree - his son Richard Christian born in Queens County Ireland in 1828 & emigrated to Australia in 1854.  Christian is not a common Irish name and they were Protestants.  May be he had come over from Isle of Man !

He is the top of our family tree and have no further information on the parents of the Aussie immigrant.  Thanks Tim C in Sydney Australia

[taramcdsmall]

Hi there

The free index on IFHF shows a Richard and Mary Christian in Stradbally Laois with 3 baptisms

Eliza 1833
Thomas 1835
Edward 1837

the problem is that these are RC records but you have said that your family were Protestant.

BUT

I did find this interesting baptism on irishgenealogy

It's for a Richard Christian baptised in DUBLIN to a Richard and Mary Christian in 1829

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/7d57410086601

again a RC baptism but I'm wondering MIGHT this be the correct family and MAYBE your Richard changed religion in Australia.

Do you have an occupation for Richard Senior to account for the move from Dublin to Laois (if indeed this is the correct family)

There are no Christian's on GV in Laois, so I am presuming that Richard was not a farmer !

Tara

[timnpip]

Hi Tara,  I think you are a superstar !    This surely seems the right family - I did not know the parents names but given we continued with a long line of Richard Christian's after 1829 [including my eldest brother]  it seems logical his parents could be Richard & Mary.  We had no knowledge of siblings Eliza Thomas or Edward but Richard 1829 had 6 sons and 2 daughters : two of the sons were Edward and Robert : perhaps named after their uncles !!

Please tell me what is "IFHF"   & also  "GV in Laois"

So interesting they were RC's in Ireland as they seem to have been CofE for as far back in Australia as I can find or my late father ever knew [until Dad married Mum !].

many thanks for your wonderful assistance from Tim in sunny Sydney 

[taramcdsmall]

Hi Tim in Sunny Sydney

From Tara in a Drizzly Ireland LOL !

Anywho, as we say in Ireland 'Woe The Horses'

Next step is to try and confirm somehow that these people are actually YOUR family and not just coincidental.

I'm optimistic but no tree is worth a grain of salt without good paperwork to match it up.

My first question is that you have mentioned the Isle Of Man - WHY ? Have you anything to say that this is where your Richard Senior might have originated or is it guesswork ?

What kind of paperwork do you have for Richard Junior ? Do you have marriage or death certs ? Do you have anything giving his father's name or occupation ?

Is 20th October 1905 Richard's date of death ?

What paperwork do you have to say that the family lived in Laois ?

I can see a Richard Christian arriving in Australia in 1854 but it says that he left from New York - is this the same chap ?

Sorry so many questions but you need to try and confirm a good link to these records that I found.

SO

http://www.rootsireland.ie/ this is the site that I found the 3 baptism's in Laois

This is a pay per view site - if you decide to buy the records they are about 5 euro each and what you get is a TRANSCRIPTION of the church record - you should get a maiden name of Richard's wife Mary on them, you MIGHT get a townland for the family in Stradbally (but this is not always the case in old church records) you should also get godparents names (sometimes this can be a good lead if the godparents were family members) - although with the family possible moving a bit this may not be the case !

GV is Griffiths Valuation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griffith%27s_Valuation

Stradbally is BEAUTIFUL by the way and I live nearby so I am secretly hoping for you that this is indeed where you family lived, even for a brief period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stradbally

it is mainly a farming area, which is why I have said that if the family aren't on the GV they were probably not farmers. Then again if the family were moving around, anything is possible.

There was a big mill in Stradbally so I'm wondering MIGHT this have been where Richard worked HUM - just a theory.

So, to sum it all up HA

Have a think and tell me what paperwork you have and we'll see where we can go from here !

Tara

[timnpip]

Hi Tara, 

 The Isle of Man was only a guess as Christian is quite a common name there.  No we have very little records at all - No birth, marriage or death certificates.  Aussies weren't good on paper work back then !!  Most of it is hear say from my father, yet another Richard Christian, who died in 2005.   He also used to say we were related to King Christian of Denmark though we knew that was only a joke !!

What info do you have on him arriving from New York in 1854 ?  Maybe he had been heading for the gold rush in California and then headed on to Austraia ? That is a long way around !

We were told the forebears were free settlers rather than convicts but that is all we know - no ship name ??
All I have is :
Richard Jnr. died. Dubbo date.20.10.1905
arrived Australia 1854
married 01.10.1867
married in Bathurst to ELLEN LEAH HAYNES

Richard Jnr. was certainly a farmer is Bathurst about 4 hours west of Sydney : there was a 'gold rush' around there in the 1850's ! which is probably why he headed there when he arrived  ...  but what his father did in unknown.  His six sons also farmed around Bathurst & Dubbo before Richard Jnr's eldest son Richard [3] moved to Bondi in Sydney and was a builder.  His eldest son Charles was an architect, his youngest son Richard [4] was a building products wholesaler.  My Dad, Richard [5] son of Charles was also an architect and I am a Builder. I have a brother Richard [6] who is in finance.

Is Christian a common surname in this part of Ireland ??   

Any way Tara many thnaks for your help and may your 'Irish eyes be smiling' !   

Cheers from a now slightly wet Sydney,  Tim

 

I am delighted to hear Stradbally is pretty - I just Wikipedia-ed it and it looks lovely !

[taramcdsmall]

Hi Tim

So was it you father that mentioned County Laois ?

I'm not great with Australian records but surely there would have been a death cert for Richard in 1905 - have you tried the Australian board on this site ?

Richard Christian, b abt 1834, arrival 2 Feb 1854, port Melbourne Australia, dep port New York, Ship Angelique, Nationality British (Irish were under British rule at this point)

No way of knowing at this point if it's one and the same chap - good possibility though and might be worth following up.

Let me know if you get more leads

Tara

[taramcdsmall]

Sorry,

forgot to mention that NO Christian is NOT a Laois surname at all.

The only reference that I can find to it are those 3 baptisms.

That's why if you had something concrete saying Laois, you could be fairly sure it was the correct family.

Tara

[timnpip]

Hi Tara

and again BIG THANKS

umm I am quite a novice at this - I wonder how do I get the shipping records for "Angelique" from New York to Melbourne.  I wonder how I trace Richard Christian in New York back to [hopefully] Ireland.  What are the nearest ports to you there in Laois.  Where should I look for his trip from Ireland to New York    Presumably in 1854 he was getting away from the Irish Potato Famine - sensible him !!

All I know from Dad is that he came from Queens County, Ireland. It was always a bit of a mystery because as you have said it is not a typical name at all for Queens County.  [It was only recently that when I searched for it I found it had a new {presumably post Royal now Republican but presumably historic} name Laois.  Congrats on being a Republic - we are still waiting for the transition ! ] 

It must be the same chap as 1854 was the year I had on my records !!  I do think I will have to buy Richard Jnr's death certificate - tho the records were vague in those days with lots of blanks !  [some folk did not want to have their history known I expect].  & or the possible 3 baptisms in Laois and may be presumably his in Dublin.    Dad had some very confusing story that Richard Jnr came out to Australia went back to report to the relatives that it was worth the risk and then returned finally yet we do not know of any of his siblings coming out ? 

Oh looking at a different family tree record just now it says Richard Snr was an "Agent"   and his un-named wife was from Wales !!!  But again the accuracy of this is unknown !

Best wishes, Tim
 

[taramcdsmall]

Hi Tim,

Well 'Queen's County, Ireland' is not the kind of place that you just 'pluck from a hat' so it's a good lead - but I would just be careful as sometimes family folklore gets mixed up and place names can get attributed to incorrect family members.

Hum AGENT is interesting - this could have been any number of things - a land agent spring to mind but there, of course, are lots of different types but it might be useful at some point.

Laois, is pretty much in the middle of Ireland so Richard Junior could have gone from numerous points - I am presuming Queenstown, as it would have been called at the time; COBH as it is know now !

Yes, a record of Richard leaving Ireland would be ideal - but nothing is showing up. The record for a Richard going from New York to Australia is promising as it does reference Ireland and the correct year that is in your family records.

Again, the story of Richard being dispatched as it were to check if places were ok could account for the American destination first and then Australia.

I think you should defo get the death cert to see if you can glean any leads from it at all.

I would suggest that you get one of the Laois baptisms, Edward preferably, given the more rarity of this name, to get the mother's maiden name. This name MIGHT help to see if a marriage for them in England, Wales or Isle of Man can be found.

Let me know how you get on .....

Tara