Romany links

[suevbird]

Hi, I grew up always being told by my Maternal Grandmother that there are romany links in the family, sadly she has now passed so I can't get any further information from her.  Through doing my family tree on ancestry I have been contacted by two distant relatives (who don't know each other) also saying that they were told there were romany ancestors.  Most of my ancestors came from the Sussex/Kent area and surnames included Penfold, Humphrey & Smith.  On the Humphrey side I have noticed that in one family in particular the children were called, Hannah, Hezekiah, Hammoleketh, Hagar, Heber & Hodiah.

Is there anyway I can prove the romany link for definite.  Would DNA testing be of any use?

Many thanks

Sue

Just as a footnote, my cousins son was born with a 'blue spot' birthmark.  We thought it was a bruise initially but when he went for his normal check the nurse asked if his father was foreign.  His wife answered no but the nurse was confused as she said that these type of birthmarks never appeared in europeans.  I mentioned the romany rumour and she said 'oh that would make sense as some romaines originated from India'.  I have sinced researched and found that some of the romany language originated from Sanskrit.  Even more confused

[Roy G]

Perhaps you should also add to the list of 'H' names, Harriet 1806 and Hilkiah 1816 who were also baptised in the same Sussex parish (Hartfield) as Hammoleketh 1825.   

All the names you have given seem to be children of a Sussex labourer Henry Humphr(e)y and his wife Hannah Gasson or Gaston (married Fletching 1802).  Finding out more about Henry and Hannah and where they and their family were in census years may prove whether they were travellers or not.   I appreciate that if they were Travellers, Romnies or Gypsies they may be difficult to track down on censuses, but if you are lucky, they sometimes can be found where a fair or travellers gathering is being held.  Look for an address that isn't, which has been tacked onto the last few pages of a census.  eg In a cart by the side of the road

Do not overlook what appears to be another family relationship between a Thomas Humphrey and Emma/Amy Gaston or Gasson (marriage Hartfield 1808).  It could be coincidental but it's more likely that these are two brothers marrying two sisters.

Adding to your side note.  Even though the name gypsy is derived from Egyptian, as you write,  the origins of the ethnic group are presumed to have originated in India.  I also recently discovered that the Romano-Hungarian (hence Romany) word for Gypsy is Cigane, which I am told, is very similar to a word for an Indian caste still called, 'untouchables.'

Roy G

[suevbird]

Hi Roy

Thanks for the reply.  I do have the other 'H' siblings in my tree but at the time of writing this post could not remember all the names

I see your note regarding the Gasson marriages which I will look into.  There are also a couple of Humphreys who married Penfolds.  Again this I will have to look into further.

I have had a look through all the 'H' names but cannot find much information on them.  They do appear in some family trees but these are not public so I will have to make contact to find out any information.

From what I can see they all seem to be Agricultural Labourers but I appreciate that many people worked the land at this time, Romany or not.

The reason for my question over the Romany link is due to the two separate people who have contacted me with the same family rumour.

Failing being able to locate any further information is very frustrating but I will keep looking 

Regards

Sue

[Roy G]

To some extent I feel that the idea that they were travellers only based on the choice of unusual names, may be a false trail.  You will note that they remained in the same parish for at least two decades, which is hardly a traveller's trait.  Their daughter Hannah, then married William Penfold (1821), so presumably that how that name interwove into family lore. 

I found 15 people on the Genes Reunited website all with Hodiah in their tree, and 7 with Hammoleketh, so there are obviously lots of others out there who share your interest.

Supplementary
I see you also ask for help identifying Hannah Gasson's mother, wife of John.  She was Katherine HUMPHREY (yes Humphrey) of Fletching and they married in Fletching on 5 June of Hannah's birth year.  (info SFHG members)

Roy G

 

[Theli p]

Penfold Currently in Somerset there are several Penfolds who are travellers so that surname is definitely worth investigating.

[cecily3]

I have Penfolds in my line from Sussex .Have sent a PM to Sue & will continue this way if I can help.A few years ago I made contact with an American family who are distant cousins,proven,of myself.Like many who find they have roots in a different country,they had their tree examined by a professional Sussex based researcher &,so generously, sent me a full copy which is concerned with East & West Wittering where our family originated.This even includes Banns,Baptisms,Burials & Weddings going back to the mid 1660`s & a full appraisal of our family from 1705.I must agree that these Sussex Penfolds were not Romany but farmers,Sussex born & bred.Many in the 1800`s relocated due to the upheaval in agriculture at that time.On the other hand,in my maternal line they WERE  Romany,only 3 generations back,again proven by a family contact who still retains the links.Yet,although this line is again from the southern counties of England,I cannot find the surnames mentioned & they did very much intermarry,appearing as Romany families.Each of these sources I think are reliable & by myself could not have gained so much info. unless it came,as it were "straight from the horses mouth."Hope this is helpful.

[Hampshire Lass]

There are gypsies in the Sussex/Kent area with the surname Smith and so that surname is worth investigating too.

[Tallulahblossom]

Sorry to gatecrash this topic but I would like to thank Roy G for helping me with another piece to my puzzle.  You interestingly stated  "I appreciate that if they were Travellers, Romnies or Gypsies they may be difficult to track down on censuses, but if you are lucky, they sometimes can be found where a fair or travellers gathering is being held.  Look for an address that isn't, which has been tacked onto the last few pages of a census.  eg In a cart by the side of the road"   I came across exactly that  in a census while looking for my 3x great grandparents who very little is known about.  I naively assumed it meant they were sleeping rough, sounds ridiculous now especially as my great aunt had told me she thought they had some sort of connection to a fair! I now have the motivation to carry on digging!