Author Topic: Is it the same Timothy Eltham  (Read 3607 times)

Online LizzieL

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Is it the same Timothy Eltham
« on: Sunday 15 June 14 13:29 BST (UK) »
The death of a Timothy Eltham was registered in Wantage district in 1848. There is an entry in the death duty register for a Timothy Eltham for that year it states that his residence was in Wantage and the executor was  Richard Tovey of Southampton.
The 1841 only has one Timothy Eltham age 64 living in Chipping Sodbury in Gloucestershire, not born in county. The year of birth calculates as 1777 - it hasn't been rounded so might be fairly accurate. Familysearch has a baptism in March 1776 for a Timothy Ilett Eltham son of Mary Eltham of Buckland Berks (not too far from Wantage).
Am I jumping to conclusions by thinking this is the same Timothy?. The Gloucestershire resident Timothy isn't on any subsequent censuses so has died before 1851, and FreeBMD has no other deaths for a Timothy Eltham.
The curious thing that the Timothy on the census is a labourer, so I wouldn't have expected him to have made a will or had enough to pay death duties,
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott

Offline Duodecem

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Re: Is it the same Timothy Eltham
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 15 June 14 13:57 BST (UK) »
Ancestry have the details of the will-he is described as being "formerly of Rose and Crown Court, in the parish of St Mary Islington, now of Wooton Bassett Wiltshire" It also describes him of "late of Wantage"
Richard Tovey-formerly of Portland Place Islington, now of the Ordnance Map Office, Southampton was the sole beneficiary as well as the executor. The witnesses were both from Southampton -George Baker from the Ordnance Map Office and Henry Minns from HM Customs.
The Chipping Sodbury census record spells the surname Eltum- though that could be the compiler's error.
There is also a 23 May 1836 marriage record Newent Gloucs, between Timothy Elton (sic) and Maria Taylor.
Cooper- Berks, Herts, Wrexham,Birmingham
Garrett- London, Berks
Morton-Berkshire
Harvey- Essex
Hambling, Royal,Dale,Jackson, Tann, Boatwright Edridge/Etheridge/Uttridge -all Norfolk
Osborne-Norfolk and Northumberland/Durham

Online LizzieL

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Re: Is it the same Timothy Eltham
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 15 June 14 17:20 BST (UK) »
Thank you for all the information. So it looks like the Timothy who made the will and died in Wantage might have had connections with the Ordnance Survey. And possibly had no family to leave his money to. It doesn't seem to fit with the Timothy in Gloucestershire who was a labourer.
Eltum is the way the name would be pronounced, so may indicate Gloucestershire Timothy was illiterate or someone else filled in the form for him without asking how the name was spelt.
The Timothy Elton who married in Newent is living with Maria in Newent in 1841, His year of birth is given as 1811 which fits better with a marriage in 1836.
I've found a Richard Tovey in Islington in 1841, age 50 occupation engraver, which seems best fit with making maps. He is not born in county. I can't seem to find him or his son (also called Richard and an engraver) in 1851. But there is a Richard Tovey's death age 82 registered in Southampton district Q2 1871, which matches in age to the Richard I found in 1841, so he must be on the censuses up to 1861 and possibly 1871 somewhere.
But still left with only one Timothy on 1841 census and one Timothy's death record before 1851.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott

Online LizzieL

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Re: Is it the same Timothy Eltham
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 15 June 14 17:45 BST (UK) »
Found Richard Tovey in 1861 in Southampton described as superannuated engraver ordnance factory, birthplace Lambeth Surrey. So no obvious link with Berkshire or Gloucestershire. Although there do seem a lot of Toveys in Gloucestershire. As the witnesses to the will were from Southampton, presumably Timothy must have been there when he wrote his will.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott


Offline Duodecem

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Re: Is it the same Timothy Eltham
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 15 June 14 19:24 BST (UK) »
It seems possible that the Timothy Elton b Gloucester 1811 was the son of Timothy Eltum b 1777 but I suspect that neither are your Timothy Eltham.
I would think that the birth and death in Buckland and Wantage are for "your" Timothy. It fits in with "late of Wantage." He doesn't seem to have had time to settle in Gloucestershire as well so, if you do find a census record for him it would probably be in Berks/Oxon/Wilts or in Islington.
He signed the will with an X so probably couldn't spell his name any more than the other Timothy.
That said there are only 2 Timothy Eltham/Elton deaths- the Wantage one and Timothy of Newent in 1891-and we think there should be 3 of them. :-\
It's possible that one of the Timothys was missed off the census but not the BMD record.
So-either the name was spelled very differently or there is only one older Timothy.
I did find a London Tax record for T Aldham in St Marys Islington 1822- could be him?  ??? Perhaps that's the way to go. I have had ancestors with 15 different spellings of the same name-including 3 different initial letters ( A, E and U!)
 
Cooper- Berks, Herts, Wrexham,Birmingham
Garrett- London, Berks
Morton-Berkshire
Harvey- Essex
Hambling, Royal,Dale,Jackson, Tann, Boatwright Edridge/Etheridge/Uttridge -all Norfolk
Osborne-Norfolk and Northumberland/Durham

Online LizzieL

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Re: Is it the same Timothy Eltham
« Reply #5 on: Monday 16 June 14 07:47 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the suggestion, I had only been searching on Elt*, because Elthum, Eltum, Eltam are all quite common spellings, but now I remember I have seen Altham and even Heltham.
The Timothy in Chipping Sodbury may only have been passing through or visiting briefly. Wootton Bassett is on the route between C S and Wantage.
So the Timothy who made the will was illiterate, travelled a bit (Islington, Wootton Bassett, Southampton?, Wantage), occupation unknown but made enough money to make a will and pay death duties, probably had no close family as he left his money to someone who appears unrelated and died in 1848 in Wantage.
Timothy in Chipping Sodbury was born abt same year as Timothy Ilett Eltham, occupation labourer and unless found on any later censuses, died between 1841 and 1851.
Was there a date when the will was written?
   
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott

Offline Duodecem

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Re: Is it the same Timothy Eltham
« Reply #6 on: Monday 16 June 14 08:15 BST (UK) »
Looking at the will again -he is described as "Labourer" dated 22nd April 1843 - I think, it's in words not numbers and the writing is very stylised and hard to read. So- if Timothy was a jobbing labourer he could have been in Chipping Sodbury in 1841, in Wooton Bassett in 1843 and in Wantage in 1848.
Cooper- Berks, Herts, Wrexham,Birmingham
Garrett- London, Berks
Morton-Berkshire
Harvey- Essex
Hambling, Royal,Dale,Jackson, Tann, Boatwright Edridge/Etheridge/Uttridge -all Norfolk
Osborne-Norfolk and Northumberland/Durham

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Re: Is it the same Timothy Eltham
« Reply #7 on: Monday 16 June 14 09:16 BST (UK) »
And before that in Islington where he probably met Richard Tovey. I have also been trying to track the witnesses on the censuses.
There is a Richard H Minns in Southampton working for HM Customs, he was born in Southampton, so he might have been Richard Henry, known as Henry.

George Baker engraver Ordnance survey b abt 1804 is living in Southampton in 1851 with his family. He was born in Islington as were his oldest 4 children, the youngest two were born in Southampton, so he moved sometime between 1842 and 1845.
 
Richard Tovey was born in Lambeth but his wife Sophia E was born in Islington. A marriage licence was granted to a Richard Tovey and a Sophia Elizabeth Baker on 28 Nov 1810.
I have now found him in 1851 in Southampton (transcribed on FindMyPast as Lovey), Richard was born in 1789, Sophia in 1791, so a marriage in 1810 would be feasible although they would be quite young. In 1841 there is a son Richard living with the family. In 1851 Richard jnr is married with a 4month old  baby living in Cheltenham his occupation is teacher of surveying. In the index to death duty registers Richard Tovey of Cheltenham is named as executor to Richard snr.
So George Baker (witness) could be a relative of Richard's wife Sophia, and there is a Gloucestershire connection although it could be a coincidence.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott

Offline Duodecem

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Re: Is it the same Timothy Eltham
« Reply #8 on: Monday 16 June 14 09:22 BST (UK) »
Sorry-I was interrupted. I think you are correct in the assumption that Timothy was in Chipping Sodbury in 1841, but possibly not resident as it isn't mentioned in the will. I think his link with Richard Tovey dates from their residence in Islington.
It's surprising that a labourer made enough money to leave a will but presumably he was single so had less to spend his wages on. Some of my labouring ancestors had 15 children!
I will persevere with the will. it's in italic script- beautifully written but not easy to decipher.
Cooper- Berks, Herts, Wrexham,Birmingham
Garrett- London, Berks
Morton-Berkshire
Harvey- Essex
Hambling, Royal,Dale,Jackson, Tann, Boatwright Edridge/Etheridge/Uttridge -all Norfolk
Osborne-Norfolk and Northumberland/Durham