James GILBERT

[Greaves]

James Gilbert (c1838-1873) was my Great Great Grandfather. He was born c1838 in Bermondsey. He appears on the 1841 and 1851 Censuses living with his family in Bermondsey and then Southwark. In August 1859, he married Emma Frances MARTIN in Tottenham. They had a daughter named Emma, who was born c1860 in Edmonton. Unfortunately, his wife Emma died in March 1861. James re-married in March 1864 to Harriet MARDELL in West Hackney. The 1871 census, shows James and Harriet living in Tottenham, with another daughter (Harriet) and a son (James William). James died in December 1873 in Edmonton. The 1881 census shows his widow (Harriet) living in Tottenham with her mother, her step-daughter Emma, two daughters (Harriet and Alice) and three sons (James William, James and Alfred James).

1. I can't find a birth or a baptism for James c1838.

2. I can't find James on the 1861 census, which would have been shortly after the death of his first wife.

3. Nor can I find the whereabouts of their child Emma, who seems to disappear, until she crops up again in 1881.

4. Finally, I am having problems locating a birth for the youngest daughter Alice, who if we believe the 1881 census was born c1876, i.e. after the death of James. The youngest son, Alfred James, is just about OK having been 7 in 1881, which is consistent with being fathered by James prior to his death.

As always any help will be much appreciated.

[groom]

Have you checked out these two births?

James Gilbert  June quarter 1838  Camberwell

James Gilbert  March quarter 1839  Southwark

[CaroleW]

He appears on the 1841 and 1851 Censuses living with his family in Bermondsey and then Southwark.

Who were his parents?

[groom]

Looks as if they were James and Frances in 1841, with Frances possibly a widow by 1851.

[CaroleW]

Hi

There are 3 other possible entries in 1841 matching his birthyear

Aged 2 living in Camberwell parents James and Mary

Aged 2 in Southwark - parents James and Jane

Aged 3 in Camberwell - parents James and Mary

I know the 1841 for James & Frances was in Bermondsey but there doesn't appear to be any confirmation that his father was James

[Greaves]

Indeed, James and Frances were his parents, as was established on an earlier thread on this board. His mother was Frances Gilbert, nee Favel. Whilst I would obviously like to confirm his DOB, it is the 1861 period and the aftermath that I am currently interested in.

The Southwark one is definitely wrong, as the parents are given as James and Jane. The Camberwell one needs to be checked, as it is new to me.

[groom]

Two things occur to me re the 1861:

If his wife had just died and he was left with a young child, perhaps he just overlooked filling in the census form.

Or

Were he and Emma with relatives and have been recorded in error under their names.


Have you got his wife's death certificate, as this is where he is likely to have been living at the time of the census?  You could then do an address search for 1861 and see if he was there.

[Greaves]

Yes, I have Emma's death certificate. She died of Phthosis (TB?) at Blackmond Row, Tottenham. Her mother Mary Ann DAY, who had remarried, was present. The mother's address was also Blackmond Row, so I think she was being looked after by her mother, at her mother's address.

[CaroleW]

Indeed, James and Frances were his parents, as was established on an earlier thread on this board. His mother was Frances Gilbert, nee Favel.

Links to previous thread to avoid duplication of info

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=688909.msg5336179#msg5336179

Failure to register a birth only became a fineable offence in 1874 so many births went unregistered prior to then