JOHN GIBBONS MATHEWS Sergeant of Lancers in DUBLIN 1845

[jaybelnz]

Keen to find out also about my 3xgreatgrandfather, who married in Dublin 1845. Name of John Gibbons Mathews, he was Sergeant of Lancers, usual place of Residence stated to be Nottingham. Of course I don't know if he was serving there, or there for his marriage, but he was born in Ireland. He was back in Hounslow by 1847, when his son - my GGf was born there, and was out of the Army by 1850, where he turns up in 1851 census living in Manchester and working as a Railway Agent. 

Any ideas please about how I would I go about finding out his regiment, and perhaps getting a service record for him. 

Any clues please???
Thank You
Jeanne (Mathews) Bell NZ

[km1971]

Hi Jeanne

You should always give the month as well as the year when quoting BMDs events with an army connection. I cannot find a regiment of Lancers that match being in Dublin in 1845 and Hounslow in 1847. Closest are the 12th Lancers who were in Hounslow from September 1846 to July 1848; Nottingham from June 1844 to June 1845; and who had been in Ireland until 1843 (Dublin to October 1842).

You may find his papers on Findmypast; but he is not showing on the National Archives Catalogue, which has an index for soldiers discharged up to 1854.

Ken

[jaybelnz]

  :DThank You Ken.  The marriage that took place in Dublin 9 July 1845, at St Peters Parish Church in Dublin. I already have that record, which is where he is shown as a Sergeant of Lancers, but sadly no regiment. Haven't yet been able to locate him on findmypast either. Oh well - one day - I had thought 9?/12th Lancers myself, as have a reference to a Nottingham regiment being in Dublin around that time, but he may only have been there for his marriage.

He married Mary Jane Fleming, daughter of David Fleming, who was also Military, an Officer with the Royal Irish Artillery, and her usual place of residence was Triton Terrace, Irishtown, Dublin..  I think I've already posted here on another thread to find some info on that one, but to be perfectly honest, I can't remember where I posted it.  LOL.   Time I went back to bed I think!!  And start again tomorrow back at findmypast  - and with a clear head!!
Thanks again
Jeanne

[jaybelnz]

24/07/2014.  After such a long time......Have at last just located John Gibbons Mathews on a British Army Medal Roll 12th Lancers . Sergeant. Engagement date 26/05/ 1856. Entry Number 24.  This confirms the info in his marriage record to (Mary Jane Fleming) in Dublin, Ireland 1845, where he is stated to be a "Sergeant of Lancers". Usual place of Residence Nottingham. I'm picking he was probably with the 9th there in Nottingham.

It appears it was maybe a wee side trip to Dublin in 1845 to get married. His sisters and possibly his father also lived in Dublin, as the two sisters were both married there a couple of years afterwards.

So this fits in with the changes you mentioned in your last post Ken, the 1845 Dublin Marriage was right in between the times when the 12th lancers went from Nottingham to Hounslow. Or is that when the 9th combined with the 12th perhaps?

Are there any other avenues anyone could suggest that I go down, to find more of john Gibbons Mathews Miltary service.  Enlistment dates, places he had served etc.  Grateful for any advice please.

Thank you

Jeanne

[km1971]

Hi Jeanne

The two regiments did not merge until 1960.

If you cannot find his record on Findmypast, and you have him after his army career, then he either purchased his discharge, or he was punished for something really bad and lost his pension rights. It is more likely to be the former as, even after losing pension rights soldiers had to carry on serving. The records on FindMyPast largely come from the people who looked after pensions.

The headquarters of the 12th Lancers was in Nottingham at the time of the wedding. However it is entirely possible that he was in a small recruiting party in Dublin at the time, or they had met when the 12th Lancers were in Dublin in 1842, and his was on furlo.

The only way to proceed is to use a researcher and look up the muster books, starting with the one for the time of the marriage. This assumes your early postings mean you do not live close to Kew. His first and last entry will give the most information – such as age, place of birth, occupation etc. As well as the reason for discharge.

How can he be getting a medal in 1856 if he is a civilian in 1851– your first post? Should it be 1861?

Ken

[jaybelnz]

Thank You Ken, I should have said possible find for the medals. I found one for Crimea and one for South Africa. They were on UK Military Campaign Medal and Awards Roll 1793-1949.

I don't think the Crimea one is mine somehow.

 The one I am particularly interested in is as follows

The record shows              JOHN MATHEWS.  Rank Sergeant
Regiment                          12th Lancers
Period When engaged.       1834-35 (ticked) and 1846-47 (ticked) (these show in column)
                                       1850-53 is crossed off
Service Location                South Africa 1834-53

No service number was noted on the entry.

So it appears that he wasn't engaged in overseas service at the time of his 1845 marriage in Dublin.

Definitely his family in the 1851 census.

His first child, my great grandfather, was born or baptised - Hounslow Heath. I really would love to get his service record and think I might have to stump up and hire a researcher to do that for me.  I've got a sore foot at the moment, and 11,687 miles just a wee bit far to run down to Kew from New Zealand!  :(Shame about that really).

So thank you for sharpening up my focus Ken. I very much appreciate your input.

Jeanne
                   

[jaybelnz]

Sorry, I forgot to say that first engagement date of  26/05/56 was beside someone else's name on the page, there were three columns with dates of engagement.  My two are as in the above post.
 . Jeanne

[ShaunJ]

Seen this? https://www2.shu.ac.uk/sfca/claimDetails.cfm?claim=4-3972 (Re compensation claim for flood damage in Sheffield 1865)

[ShaunJ]

Another Dublin connection: John Gibbons Mathews was secretary of the Dublin branch of the Caledonian Insurance Office in 1838 (advertisement, Freeman's Journal and Daily Commercial Advertiser, April 9 1838)