Frederick Lillycroft Lindsay and Frederick Lee

[ozeannie]

Hi,

the link below is most of what I know about Frederick Lillycroft Lindsay other than the fact that he is given as the father of my g-g-grandfather Frederick Lee on his baptismal register. Frederick's mother was the convict Agnes McMillan and Frederick was born 10 Jan 1841 at the Cascades Female Factory and baptised 17 Jan 1841. Once free, Agnes married (or at least was a common law wife of) another convict William Roberts and had several children with him. They left Tasmania and travelled to the Richmond River area via Melbourne and the Victoria goldfields. On the transport register for the ship, Frederick appears listed under the Roberts name, though this was probably just assumed to be the case as he was travelling with the Roberts family. By the time he was married, Frederick had the surname "Lee". Whether this was adapted from his natural father Frederick Lindsay or whether he assumed this name himself is unknown. He also raised his own family under the name Lee and died by the same name. His father was listed as Frederick Lee on his death certificate, but again, Lee was probably the assumed name of his father if the informant didn't know any better. I am desperate to find out more about Frederick Lindsay after his convict days - I did find a shipping record for a Frederick Lindsay from Launceston to Melbourne and a death of a Frederick Lindsay in Victoria in the 1850's but I don't know if it is him. I am also longing to try and find the origin of the Lee name. Anyone with any information or suggestions, gratefully appreciated.

http://foundersandsurvivors.org/pubsearch/convict/chain/c31a31250703

[cupoflife]

Frederick Lillycroft Lindsey (Moffatt 2) eligible for Certificate of Freedom 27th June 1844
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0ywe/

cheers
cupoflife

[ozeannie]

Thanks, yes, sorry I should have said I did have that as well....I have his convict conduct record & particulars....it's what happened to him after his convict days I need to know....and/or about his parentage and life before his trial....not likely to find out I know but just posting here as a long shot in case someone else has found anything... I know he was first assigned to Mr Andrew Wright at Old Beach. I would like to find out who else he may have been assigned to, the location and dates. I am going to contact Tasmanian Archives to see if they can help with any further records but just thought I'd try the forum also....I have a feeling that Frederick Lindsay may never have married...just a totally unfounded hunch - but if he did he may have then had descendants and hopefully if so one might see this post... Thanks

P.S. He is listed on the 1841 muster as working for Van Dieman's Land Company. The Frederick Lindsay who sailed to Melbourne did so on the City of Melbourne in 1851 under a Conditional Pardon.

[judb]

Sadly, if he had no friends or family it's likely that his death, if you can find it, may have no further information.  The chap who travelled to Victoria and the death found in Victoria look promising so you may want to purchase that death certificate.  However, as I've already said it may have no useful information, depending on the knowledge of the informant for the certificate. So many went looking for gold and died with no-one knowing much about them.

I note that the records of his three Court appearances in Exeter give some slightly different spellings for his name - Lillycrop and Lillycrap, rather than Lillycroft, and LINDSEY in a couple of the records.

You may already have this  newspaper report of the trial for the second of his crimes. 

Trewman's Exeter Flying Post or Plymouth and Cornish Advertiser (Exeter, England),
Thursday, March 30, 1837
City Assizes
At half-past one o'clock Mr Justice Williams repaired to the Guildhall and the trial of prisoners began.
Philip BROAD, 27,  and Frederick Lillycrop LINDSAY, 23, for burglariously entering the dwelling-house of Mr Nicholas STRONG, Falcon Inn and stealing beef, pork &c.  Guilty of stealing; and sentenced to be imprisoned 3 months and to be kept in hard labour.

I can't see a report of the case which resulted in transportation.

[ozeannie]

Yes you're right - there were a number of spellings also Lillycraft and Linsey and Lindey and Linday etc etc - makes it harder still to trace him. I agree with all of the sentiment in your first paragraph and have come to the same conclusion. I actually hadn't got the newspaper report so thank you, I usually end up tracking those down but hadn't got that far with him yet.

I'll see if I can find anything further in the papers but if you've already looked I doubt I will find anything either..... Thanks again for your help

[Dundee]

I wonder if he was actually baptised Frederick Augustus LINDSEY?

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/J792-BH3

Parents' marriage?

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N2CD-96N

Debra 

[judb]

I saw that one, Debra and wondered the same.  He certainly has a quite smart sounding name for a chap whose Court record implies that he hasn't had much education.  Oh, my what a sweeping generalisation that is!   

Judith

[ozeannie]

Gosh you could be onto something there. First I saw the christening and thought "No, he is definitely Lillycrxxx" on all his convict paper trails but then I saw the marriage and it all made sense where you were going.....hmmm...the plot just keeps thickening.... He chopped and change the spelling of his name so much, why not just change the actual name itself as well? Have to go for now but I'll be back to ponder this some more later ...

Thanks for the heads up.

Anne

[ozeannie]

Yes I've had another look - the dates certainly match up - he (FLL) was born circa 1811-1812 from age on convict records, which matches the baptism. Exeter, Devon matches.

I haven't been able to find any evidence of a death of a Frederick Augustus Lindsay/Lindsey etc or any other reference to him on census records, though he could have died before they were taken and the death not recorded. Still, there's no record there to prove there WAS a Frederick Augustus Lindsey survived in England AFTER my fella came out here. Or even a Frederick Lindsey of the right age and location that was really obvious...

I think there's a good chance you've found his parents for me Just have to say "possible parents" rather than "parents" in adding them to my tree.

As to what became of him - I looked further into the death of Frederick Lindsay in Victoria in 1854. He was 42 years of age (matches b1812), parents were unknown, but birthplace was England. I think I might have found my man! Of course this could all be co-incidental, but I'm excited just a little

Notwithstanding the plethora of spelling variations from Lindsey at baptism to Lindsay at death and all the variations in-between of Linsey, Linsay etc - plus changing his middle name from Augustus to Lillycroft/Lillycraft/Lillycropp/Lillycrapp etc.

I still haven't found the story behind the Lee name however - it would appear that Frederick the father didn't change his name to Lee, so that is one thing that can perhaps be eliminated. I also don't know how Agnes as a convict had an illegitimate baby and didn't seem to suffer the consequences for it (ie convict women generally got a further punishment if they were found to be pregnant, irrespective of the circumstances). Agnes would have conceived around April 1840 to have Frederick in Jan 1841. There is nothing in her conduct record in 1840 until October when she got done for "insolence". She would have been 6 months pregnant by then - maybe she managed to keep it hidden till that time...?? but there is no evidence of Frederick at the Queen's orphanage which is where the convict babies ended up as a rule. Agnes was working at the factory nursery - maybe she managed to keep him hidden amongst the babies there....otherwise I can only imagine she somehow had someone else looking after him on the quiet on the outside - I'm wondering if the Lee name is in thanks for someone of that name who took care of him....?

Still a puzzle!

P.S. Frederick junior was known as Frederick Lee on all documents including electoral rolls up until about 9 years before his death. In the last few years he appears as Frederick Leslie Lee on the roll, and also named Frederick Leslie Lee on his death certificate. From where and why this middle name appeared is also a mystery!