John Overall and Frances Marriage - Bermondsey Area?

[Tim Brayshaw]

I've just blown that occupation up and it's Corn Meter

Thank you for all your help so far on this one, its a little convoluted. So which baptism am i looking at now,  around 1818/1819, with a William as the father, as a Cornmeter?

Many Thanks again.

[CaroleW]

Yes - as long as you are sure about the 1840 marriage being the right one - then John's father was William occ corn meter and his mother was Frances

[CaroleW]

Just remembered - the 1841 entry shows John William as born out of county so marriage could be anywhere

[Tim Brayshaw]

Yes - as long as you are sure about the 1840 marriage being the right one - then John's father was William occ corn meter and his mother was Frances

I'm not sure about Frances being the mother now.

The 1818 baptism isnt the one because that shows the parents as John and Frances. (Not William)

The 1819 baptism isn't the one because that shows the father as a Bellows Maker.

I am currently looking at this one...

Name:   John Overall
Birth:   9 May 1817
Baptism   31 Aug 1817 St. Giles Cripplegate, London, England
Father:   William Overall
Mother:   Sarah

Then that matches the William Overall on the 1841 census you found as a Cornmeter, and not Sarah as a second marriage, but the mother of William. I'm just trying to find a digital scan so i can look at further information.


It's not the above, father's occupation was Baker. Still confused

[Tim Brayshaw]

Just remembered - the 1841 entry shows John as born out of county so marriage could be anywhere

Strange because 1851-1881 he consitently says he is born in London.

[Barbara F]

Not sure that this will help or confuse more but there is a baptism of a Sarah Butcher in Folkestone with  father Henry

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NTPC-98M

In 1841 John was living in Bermondsey Surrey.  If he had been born in Middlesex or the city of London he would say quite correctly that he wasn't born in county.

I think you really need to buy at least one of the birth certificates of the children to clarify who Sarah the mother was. Like Carol I am concerned at the lack of children between 1840 and 1846/8. 

If you tie John down as the son of William the Baker there is a will for William and Freedom of the City Admission papers for both William and John on Ancestry.

Barbara

Barbara

[Tim Brayshaw]

Not sure that this will help or confuse more but there is a baptism of a Sarah Butcher in Folkestone with  father Henry

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NTPC-98M

In 1841 John was living in Bermondsey Surrey.  If he had been born in Middlesex or the city of London he would say quite correctly that he wasn't born in county.

I think you really need to buy at least one of the birth certificates of the children to clarify who Sarah the mother was. Like Carol I am concerned at the lack of children between 1840 and 1846/8. 

If you tie John down as the son of William the Baker there is a will for William and Freedom of the City Admission papers for both William and John on Ancestry.

Barbara

Barbara

Yeah, i have that Sarah Butcher baptism in Folkestone. That should be correct if i can solidify a few things. I will purchase a child's birth certificate at payday i think to clarify the 'Butcher' mother.

The other is to find John's baptism, because there just isn't an entry that i can see anywhere for a John Overall around 1818/1819 with a father as William Occ: Cornmeter. I can see a John William Overall 1818 with father as John Overall Occ: Cornmeter. So Close.

[CaroleW]

Sorry - I confused things with a typo here - I have amended it above but for John - read William occ corn meter who was born out of county on the 1841 entry

Just remembered - the 1841 entry shows John as born out of county so marriage could be anywhere

Strange because 1851-1881 he consitently says he is born in London.

[Tim Brayshaw]

That has to be the father on the 1841 census then, I'm just wondering if on John William Overall (1818) baptism, where it shows John Overall the cornmeter as the father, if William Overall born out of county on the 1841 census went by John William as well, that would solve my current conundrum.

Because as it stands, on the baptism John's father is John the cornmeter, and on his marraige certificate his father is William the cornmeter.