Cubitt Family At St Mary Newington Surrey 1790s

[dunvr]

I've been trying to track down my Cubitt ancestors for some time. What I now have is a potential lead back to Surrey.

Francis Barrett bp 26 Mar 1817
St. Andrew, Holborn
Married Edward Simon
10th Oct 1842 St Bride's Fleet Street
Witnesses
George Barrett Full Age Widower Hardwareman 38 Charles Street Hatton Gardens
James Barrett Hardwareman
Susanna Cubitt Full Age Spinster
Thomas Cubitt Tailor

According to the 1841 census the only Thomas Cubitt with occupation of Tailor living in London in 1841 was born about 1796 in St Mary Newington  Surrey. He had a spouse named Ann? No known children.

The Francis Barrett mentioned above was the daughter of my ancestor George Barrett & his spouse Sophia Cubitt. Please see my various posts on Sophia Cubitt & George Barrett. Sophia died in London in 1842 she was born anywhere around 1792 - 1796. 1841 census puts her birth about 1796 at which time she was staying in Kent but the census clearly states she was not born in Kent. However her death record states:

Name:    Sophia Barrett
Record Type:    Burial
Estimated Death Date:    abt 1842
Burial Date:    20 Mar 1842
Age:    50
Estimated Birth Year:    abt 1792

I am suspicious that Thomas Cubitt the tailor who witnessed at Sophia's  daughters wedding in 1842 must be related to Sophia. I think they were potentially brother and sister. Can anyone confirm this?

So I tried to look for Cubitt's in St Mary Newington and only found one:

Ann Cubitt baptised 30th June 1793  at St Mary, Newington Surrey
Father John Cubitt
Mother Letitia

I there for now think that potentially John & Letitia Cubitt are the parents of Sophia, Ann & Thomas Cubitt. We also have a Susanna Cubitt witness in 1742 who I think became the second wife of George Barrett. Only problem records show her as a French lady. Unless there are two Susanna's.

Questions

1. Does anyone agree or disagree with my above theory for Sophia, Ann & Thomas Cubitts?

2. Where in Surrey is St Mary, Newington? I could not find it on the map.

3. Where is Saint Mary Lambeth, Surrey compared to St Mary Newington? I noticed a number of Cubitt's at Lambeth

4. Can anyone access the complete birth death and marriages for St Mary Newington? I'd like a complete list pre 1850 of all Cubitt's if possible.

5. Can anyone expand information on John & Letitia Cubitt?

Any help appreciated to track down this ancestry

[Valda]

Hi

Parish map of the areas covered by the East Surrey Family History society. Both Lambeth and Newington (Southwark) became part of the county of London in 1889. Both were parishes with large often transitory populations with many people arriving daily from surrounding areas enticed by the job opportunities in such areas close to the City of London.

Thomas Cubitt (45) tailor journeyman in St Mary Newingon in 1841 states he was not born in the county of Surrey and neither was Ann (45). With them was Joseph Cubitt (15) who was born in county. Adult ages, those over 15, were usually rounded down to the nearest 5 on the 1841 census, so all these people if their ges are accurate could be at least 4 years older than the age stated on the census.
The family minus Thomas senior were still in Newington in 1851 HO107 1567 folio 814. Ann was born in Bolton. Her on Joseph Moseley Cubitt's birthplace is subsequently given as Westminster.

There is no Cubitt witness to Frances Barrett's marriage in 1846 (can't see one in 1842 for a daughter of George Barrett). Thomas Cubitt of Newington was buried at St Peter Walworth 8th February 1846 aged 52 (same address as the 1841 census). Thomas Cubitt the father of Susanna did not witness her marriage. He may be the same man as the Thomas in Newington but there is no evidence as yet that he was or that Susanna's father was still alive in 1842.

As Susanna was born in France (from later censuses) have you checked the GRO army births (which go back to the C18th) to see whether her father at that time was in the army?

If Thomas Cubitt of Newington in 1841 was indeed Susanna's father there is no evidence to show this Cubitt family had much history in Surrey pre 1841. The evidence in fact points away fom Surrey at this point with neither Thomas or Ann born in Surrey (if the 1841 census is accurate) and their son Joseph born in Westminster.


Have you obtained a copy of George Barrett's will as suggested in your previous topic, since the executor was Susanna Cubbitt not Susanna Barrett? Did the will throw any further light on George's second marriage?

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,498605.0.html


Regards

Valda

[dunvr]

Thanks for the help this Cubitt family is a real challenge to sort out

Re the son Joseph Cubitt I see the following for 1841 saying he was born in Surrey not Westminister. I double checked it is the same census with Thomas and Ann appearing and I overlooked they were not born in Surrey but Joseph was. Are we looking at two Thomas Cubitt's?

Name:    Joseph Cubitt
Birth:    abt 1826 - Surrey, England
Residence:    St Mary Newington, St Mary Newington, Surrey, England

Re the will for George Barrett it gives no help at all.

I looked at army lists but could not find Thomas.

I still think Thomas Cubitt & Sophia Cubitt are brother and sister. Susanna Cubitt a niece

Thanks for finding the death record that is a big help. Thomas Cubbit born anytime in 1790s. But where I would like to nail down the location if anyone can help. 

I'd really like to have the birth of that Joseph Cubitt around 1826 but can't find it. Hope someone can help untangle this.

[Valda]

Hi

There is another Moseley Cubitt baptism in Westminster.

29th December 1816 St Clement Danes
George Moseley Cubitt parents Leonard and Mary Ann

Siblings baptised at the same church

31st May 1815
Leonard Henry

4th February 1818
Mary Anne

George Moseley Cubitt was living in Newington on the 1851 census HO107 1568 folio 177 A George Cubitt of about the right age and occupation was living in the same street as Thomas and his wife on the 1841 census. With George was Harriet Cubitt aged 50. Both were not born in Surrey. George Moseley Cubitt married in Newington in 1842.

A Leonard Cubitt married Mary Ann Cubitt 9th May 1813 at St Ann Blackfriars. They were bachelor and spinster of the parish. One of the witnesses was Sophia Cubitt.

6th August 1812 St Bride Fleet Street
John Baptist Rowzone? married Susanna Cubitt. They were bachelor and spinster of the parish. Witnesses to the marriage were Leonard and Mary Ann Cubitt.

A John Cubitt married Mary Moseley 21st February 1786 St Peter Mancroft Norwich.

Child of the marriage

St Stephen Norwich 11th June 1786
Marianne parents John and Mary Moseley Cubitt

Possible children

St Michael at Plea Norwich 30th December 1787
Christmas John parents John and Mary Cubitt

Octagon Presbyterian Norwich born 8th April 1793 baptised 14th April
Thomas parents John and Mary Cubitt

Same Presbyterian church
Born 1st February 1795 baptised 2nd February
Susan parents John And Mary Cubitt

St Clement Norwich born 11th December 1800 baptised 28th December
Maria parents John and Mary Cubitt

There is the baptism of a Leonard Cubitt 30th December 1787 St Julian's Norwich parents Leonard and Mary Smith Cubitt. According to an online tree this man was a glover and haberdasher. He had a possible sibling Harriet baptised 31st July 1785 in Norwich

There is a Leonard Cubitt death registration in 1842 in Rowington registration which FreeBMD thinks is a mispelling of  Newington. He was possibly the Leonard Cubbitt widower who married Fanny Snook at St Giles Camberwell 30th March 1834. A Fanny Cubitt is in Newington in the same street as the other Cubitts on the 1841 census. The couple had three children baptised at St Peter Walworth between 1835 and 1839 though only the youngest is with Fanny on the 1841 census. The family were of Trafalgar Street and Leonard was a glover. These seem to be all the Cubitts living on Trafalgar Street in 1841.


Regards

Valda

[Valda]

Hi

25th December 1875 St George Bloomsbury
Charles Mosley Barrett full age working jeweller 27 Hart Street George Barrett deceased Hardwareman
Eliza Bodger Full spinster 27 Hart Street Edward Bodger deceased carpenter
One of the witnesses was Sophia Ann Barrett. Both Charles and his sister are with their parents George and Susanna Barrett on the 1861 census, reference given in previous linked topic.


Regards

Valda

[Valda]

Hi

The National Archives catalogue army service record

WO97/164/125
Thomas Cubitt born Norwich Norfolk served in the Second Foot Guards discharged aged 40
1813-1833
This regiment was part of the British occupation force in Paris until 1816.


Regards

Valda

[dunvr]

Hi Valda

I am really pleased with this I think you've almost nailed the Cubitt line. This is a big help, thank you. What I feel now the most probable parents for Sophia Cubitt are John Cubitt & Mary Moseley in Norwich. And I can't seem to find that marriage record but would like to have it. Did you see the original marriage certificate? Considering that George Barrett named one of his sons Charles Moseley Barrett 1848 - 1875 I think Susan Cubitt the second wife is the daughter of Thomas Cubitt, the tailor in 1841 in Newington. This Thomas as you found was to be in the occupation force in Paris until 1816, at this time Susanna Cubitt is born in Paris. That answer the French connection. When you look at the probable children of John Cubitt & Mary Moseley I think they are all correct and there is a place where Sophia can fit in around 1791 which fits well. If only there was a birth for her in Norwich. Let me know if I am on the right track with the above thinking. I don't know how Harriet Cubitt fits in but Leonard Cubitt who married Mary Smith Cubitt maybe a brother of John Cubitt who married Mary Moseley. I confirmed the signature of Sophia Cubitt on the 1812 marriage cert is exactly the same signature on her on marriage cert. So Leonard Cubitt should be her cousin. I want to get the soldiers record of Thomas Cubitt. If you can think of anyway to strengthen this please let me know. The main clue for me being Charles MOSELEY Barrett, the Moseley must be his grandmas name. Thank you so much your help is really valuable and I do appreciate anything else that you may dig up. Should I post in Norfolk for John Cubitt & Mary Moseley?

[dunvr]

Hi Valda I logged onto findmypast and found the service record of Thomas Cubitt.

This record confirms that he was born at at St Michaels, Norwich, Norfolk 1793 probably the one you found born 8th April 1793. The record shows that he was a tailor in London. It also states he fought at Waterloo. At last someone on my family tree who fought there!

It also states he was the rank of private until 1833. He had served in Holland and five years in Paris France, you can bet that is when Susanna Cubitt was born.

All up a really good find, thank u for pointing me there, he has to be the son of John Cubitt & Mary Moseley.

[Valda]

Hi

Leonard and Harriet (who was with Leonard's son George on the 1841 census in Newington) are the children of Leonard Cubitt and Mary Smith (possibe marriage according to somone on the internet in 1784 but I have no eidence of that). Leonard junior's first marriage to Mary Ann Cubitt is probably, but needs to be proved, a first cousin marriage to the sister of Thomas. Sophia's signature at that marriage may be as the sister of the bride but could equally be as the sister of the groom.

If Sophia was the sister of Thomas then George Barrett secondly married his first wife's niece. If Sophia was the sister of Leonard and he was a first cousin of Thomas and married to his sister Mary Ann, then Susanna's relationship to Sophia was first cousin once removed.

The use of the surname Moseley as a middle name occurs in a child of Thomas', a child of Susanna's, Thomas' daughter and a child of Mary Ann, who looks to be Thomas' sister and Leonard's first wife. The surname does not seem to be used with any of Sophia's children or children of Leonard's second marriage. That doesn't prove Sophia and Leonard were brother and sister or indeed first cousins by a further as yet unknown Cubitt brother that Sophia could be the daughter of, but it does give circumstantial evidence for Sophia not being a sister of Thomas. Her potential birthdate would equally fit for a child of the marriage of Leonard senior to Mary Smith.

The John Cubitt and Mary Moseley marriage is on Family Search.

Charles Moseley Barrett would be named for his great grandmother not his grandmother (his maternal grandfather Thomas' mother).

Someone has posted on the Internet back in 2002 that the Leonard Cubitt who he claims married Mary Smith in 1784, he doesn't say where, was baptised 10th April 1757 at St James Pockthorpe Norwich the son of Joseph and Mary. A Joseph and Mary Cubitt do have a son John baptised 4th December 1763 at St Peter Parmentergate Norwich shown on Family Search, but the surname Cubitt looks to be quite popular in Norfolk so there may very well be more than one Joseph and Mary Cubitt and Pockthorpe baptisms don't seem to be on Family Search. That church's full title appears to be Norwich St James with Pockthorpe.

https://www.familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Norwich_St_James_with_Pockthorpe,_Norfolk


I think the Second Foot Guards are the Coldstream Guards. The Guards regiments still maintain their own records.

http://www.theguardsmuseum.com/Family-Research

Thomas' name does not seem to appear on the Waterloo medal roll. The Waterloo medal was the first medal issued to all ranks of soldiers, so it looks as if he missed out as far as the medal goes. Waterloo medals nowadays are not cheap to buy.


Regards

Valda