Livermore Brothers Court Minstrels

[LizzieL]

I am trying to find out whether these popular Victorian entertainers were connected to my OH's family.
I have found that they were called Lechmere and Horace, but there may have been other members of the family involved.
There is a Lechmere Charles John bapt in Manningham, Yorkshire to Charles and Augusta on 14 Apr 1846, birth reg Q2 1845 Bradford district. There is also a marriage registered for him in 1877 and birth of Lechmere Horace (possible son) a year later. But I can't find Lechmere and his parents in 1851. I have found him in 1871 with several other younger Livermores all unmarried in lodgings in Liverpool all described as vocalists, so this could be the complete set of Livermore brothers (and one sister). The places of birth of this set of possible siblings are very varied, indicating parents had a somewhat itinerant occupation.
Is anyone able to locate them in 1851 and 1861 hopefully with parents so I can get a POB for Charles.

[SmallTownGirl]

In 1851 they're lodging in London, St George's Square Hanover area.

Charles, 36, b. London
Augusta, 30, b. Hull
Augusta S, 8, b. Manchester
Lechmere Charles,, 5 (or 6), b. Bradford
Ada Amelia, 3, b. Liverpool
Charles Louis, 1, b. Liverpool

STG

[SmallTownGirl]

By 1861 Augusta is a widow, and living in Liverpool with

Ada/Asa, 13, b. Liverpool
Lechmere, 15, b. Liverpool
Louis Napoleon, 10, b. Liverpool
Horace Wm, 7, b. London
Henry Augustus, 5, b. London

STG

[LizzieL]

Thank you. I was looking on FindMyPast, so either they are not transcribed well or they are missing entirely. A Charles Livermore born in London makes a connection with my Livermores much more likely than one born in Yorkshire.
I have now tracked down baptisms of several other children on Familysearch - some very imaginative names and most had three Christian names.

[LizzieL]

This family is getting more of a mystery.

In 1871, the Livermore brothers (and sister Ada) consist of all the others mentioned earlier on 1851 and 1861 censuses plus a George Livermore born about 1857 in Hull (same place as mother - Augusta). But George doesn't appear with the family in 1861 when he would be 4 and I can't find a birth registration for him or any trace on later censuses.

Charles (father) is not on 1861 census and Augusta is a widow, so he must have died after George's conception and 1861 census date. The only death of a Charles I can find is in Whittlesey Cambs, but since the family was in London in 1851, Hull in 1856/7 for George's birth and Liverpool in 1861, this location doesn't seem to fit.

In 1841 Charles and Augusta are living in Manchester with no children. First known child (also Augusta) born in 1842, with several more at typical intervals thereafter, so I would expect to find a marriage for them in 1840/1, but so far nothing.

Charles was born in London somewhere, Augusta in Hull and they were living in Manchester as newlyweds, so these are most likely areas

Can anyone help solve these mysteries, please?

[LizzieL]

One theory I had was that Charles didn't die before 1861, but he and Augusta split up. No sign of a single unattached Charles anywhere in 1861, but in 1871 there is a Charles Livermore living in Willesden he is aged 62 so birth year 1809ish. In 1841 my Charles is 35 (so birth year 1802 - 1806 allowing for age rounding). In 1851 my Charles is 36 (so birth year 1815ish), so age is a bit variable. In 1841 my Charles's occupation is tailor, in 1851 foreman tailor. The Willesden Charles is a tailor foreman in 1871 and is also born in London like my Charles in 1871. Willesden Charles has a wife Eliza age 37 (so quite a bit younger) and 4 children, the oldest being 15. There do seem to be a lot of coincidences between my Charles and Willesden Charles. Next stage is to try and find Willesden Charles in 1851 to prove they are two different people.
But if not, it could indicate Charles and Augusta split up in mid 1850's, Charles moved in with Eliza and had a second family. The mysterious George might be Augusta's child with another man, so not registered as a Livermore but assumed the name. Augusta being a single mother might have gone back to family in Hull to have the child. More theories to test.

[Priscilla]

I have just spent an hour looking around the internet with regard to your Livermore Brothers - Lechmere and Horace.  There is just so much to read about them and because they were invovled with the Theatres and Showbiz in Plymouth, Devon (my home town!) it was all doubly fascinating.  Well worth taking a look and see ...
Their full names were Lechmere Charles John LIVERMORE and Horace William Francis LIVERMORE.

[LizzieL]

Thanks, I also found lots of newspaper reports about them. It looks like the act involved the other brothers as well as Horace and Lechmere in the early days (In 1871 there are five of them and sister Ada all described as vocalists. Oldest sister Augusta is described as a theatrical professional in the 1871 census. Later on the Minstrel group was expanded and Horace and Lechmere seem to have become more managers and theatre owners than performers. I am also trying to find what happened to the other brothers and sisters. One sister married a theatre manager, I saw one report mentioning a theatre manager who was referred to as both Horace and Lechmere's brother in law, so was either Ada or Augusta's husband. Unfortunately I viewed it on FindMyPast and did not download when that was still possible.   

[SmallTownGirl]

There's a marriage on 17 Jul 1870 at St Werbergh's church in Derby, Derbyshire between an Augusta Sophia Matilda Alexiowna (?) Livermore and a John Charles Crocker.

In 1871 they're in Everton, his occupation is listed as "Professional" and he's from Brighton.  For her it says b. Manchester.  With them is 5mth old Augusta E Crocker, b. Liverpool - an a servant.

There's a death in Q2 1911 in Bradford for Augusta S M A Crocker, age 69.
There's a birth in Q4 1870 in West Derby of an Augusta Edith Crocker.

In 1881 they're in Bradford, where John Charles Crocker is Hotel Proprietor of the Talbot Hotel in Kirkgate.  Augusta snr is there, and three children, 10yr Augusta Edith, 8yo Charles John L and an unnamed female baby under 1mth old.

1891 they're still at the Talbot Hotel and the children are Augusta E, 20, b. Liverpool; Charles J L, 18, b. Bradford; Ernest W A, 13, b. Halifax and Rhoda G J, 10, b. Bradford.

1901 Augusta is a widow living on her own means in Bristol with two daughters, Augusta E, 30, bookkeeper, and Rhoda 20, no occupation given.

From the probate register it seems that after Augusta snr died on 11 Jun 1911, probate was granted to John Charles Lechmere Crocker, spinner's salesman, so am assuming that's her son.

STG