Marriage look up Merchant to Brewin.

[Rab65]

Hi,

Wow. Thank you all for the information.

On Betsy`s birth certficate it states that John Merchant was a Master Cutler!! and living at 45 Royal East Street!! Got to be the same people, surely?

So, Betsy could also have been known as Elizabeth-of course, and she now has a Brother John-excellent.
The John & Ellen Merchant that you have found must be one and the same people that I am researching and now St. Margarets Parish that might help, I have the christening records-thank you very much.
I don`t have time now but I will go back and search for John jnrs birth GRO and see if I can find them all in the censuses tonight.

Grace Lilly Brewin-I shall file the details away but I don`t think she is connected directly to this couple at the moment.
Charles Inman does not appear to fit the time frame for John & Betsy`s births but thank you for taking the time to search for me.

Last night I tried to find Ellen Brewin in the 1851 + 1861 censuses for the Midlands but could find nothing to `fit` this lady. I have `guessed` her age as being born about 1840 so perhaps I need to search for an earlier age allowing for 20 years or so for a person to be of childbearing years-would you agree?

Cutlers
I have checked through the Sheffield Cutlers archived lists and found no John Merchant-if he was a Master Cutler would he have had to be registered? Was it illegal to set up as a registered Master Cutler if he wasn`t so, should that turn out to be the case? Was there a Company in Leicester that required these skills? Does anyone know of other Counties that trained Cutlers aside from Sheffield, I am thinking along the lines of apprenticeship records?
I will also check out the occupations listings here at Rootschat shortly.

That is all I have time for this morning but shall look forward to catching up with you all again.

[willsy]

Found a John from Sheffield boarding last night, can't remember off hand but will have a look tonight unless you beat me to it!

[willsy]

I remember why I didn't mention a John in Leicester, he is c 1850. What I am not sure of is, who is this chap?

Welford Road CA   729
MARCHANT   JOHN    1865    DEC   10   
Age 39   LEICESTER LUNATIC ASYLUM   SAINT MARY   

[Dizzifish]

Hi all.....

I haven't time at the moment to have a better look, but did seem to remember someone else researching for information which relates to this couple on Rootschat.

These are a couple of links from a while back.....

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=503981.0

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=505704.0

The marriage that is referred to for Elizabeth Merchant can be found using this Batch Number = M049843 , here = http://dustydocs.com/linkSpecial/-1/134783/england-marriages-1538-1973.html

Shame there is not much information given other than their fathers names.

Might help where to look next, and maybe the original poster might have got a little further 

[Rab65]

Hello Dizziefish and Willsy,

Thank you both for your results. I was unable to search last night but have been able to do so today--on and off.

I have gone through all of the 1851 censuses at ancestry for; John Merchant/Marchant, born 1830 + or - 10 years in England but came up with nothing suitable-specifically seeking any John`s that may have been a Cutler or an apprentice.

Tomorrow I will follow through with the 1841 census and London apprenticeship record searches. Along with signing up on the Sheffield records on-line website to recheck their records for John.
I do hope that he has been truthful about his occupation as a Master Cutler. There are a lot of John Merchant/Marchant`s born and around 1820-1870 in England so I am hoping to narrow my searches for John through his profession.

Cutlers--I have now learnt that there is also The Worshipful Company of Cutlers in the City of London that accommodated apprentices so I shall email or write to them to see if they had any John Merchant`s for any time period.

Were there any other Companies of Cutlers or organisations in England during the 18th century or any Companies around in Leicester in the 1860s? I suppose I should look up Trade directories at some point.

Are you able to tell me if there are more spelling variations for the surname Merchant please, would Marchington be a variation of the same name?

Willsy--can you give me any more details about the John Marchant, 1865, that you found in the Leics; Asylum as they may later prove to be useful?

Dizziefish--Thank you for the links. I have yet to check out the topics with 2 of those here at Rootschat, not enough time today, but did search fully through the England marriages 1538-1973, with no success, but pleased to have done so.
I searched for John Merchant/Marchant and found a record for a Francis Marchant age 50 to an Ellen Brewer age 38 which gave me hope--but her Father was a John Patching 1856 Brighton.
This find got me thinking that the surname Brewin might also be known as Brewer? so I then conducted a search for her with both surnames to no avail.

Next I searched on ancestry for them both with many name spelling variations 1837-1866-no luck there but I have loads more marriage records to search at ancestry.

I am not on-line this evening but shall be back tomorrow. Thank you for all of your time and efforts with my searches.

[willsy]

Going back to the link that Dizzifish posted for the marriage

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NVWX-3Q9

you could order that one from the photoduplication service, reading through, don't think they had the marriage cert then

https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Photoduplication_Services

[willsy]

I've been looking at the threads and from the info, an Elizabeth Marchant marries Edwin Arnold 1899, Kent, double checking she is as Elizabeth Marchant Barnes

St Margaret's
Entry No.359,  FEB  9, 1852, after Banns
THOMAS BARNES, 19, bach. LABORER, of BURLEIGH'S LANE, s. of JOSEPH BARNES, LABORER
ELLEN GLOVER BREWIN, 17, sp. of BURLEIGH'S LANE, d. of BENJAMIN BREWIN, BRAZIER
Wits: BENJAMIN BREWIN, MARIA WILLS

I really don't know if this is something, Thomas seems to be with a Mary A. as Burleys Lane 1862 no children.

[Dizzifish]

Hi Willsy....Hi Rab65..

I have only just spotted your post.... a really good find! and the "Glover" fits really well with what I had found.

I had a look last night to see if I could spot anything and did come up with some finds and have been trying to put them into some sort of order so they might make some sense.

It would seem that Ellen Brewin was born in Hull abt 1835..... but how her mother became Ellen/Eleanor Glover/Brewin became Gregory or Dixon, I don't know?.... yet 

I looked at the 1861 census for Royal East Sreet....

1861 = Piece 2291/ Folio  14 /Page 21  -  Number 45, Royal East St is unoccupied
There is a Benjamin Brewing at number 37 Royal East St he is with a visitor called Susannah Mattock?
It is Benjamin which was the link to making sense of the Brewin family......
He seems to have married Susannah by 1871, but can't see a marriage for them either ? He is also on later census 1881 in Manthorpe cum Little Gonerby.

1871 = Piece 3279 /Folio 76 / Page 10 - Royal East St.
Benjamin gives his birthplace as Barton on Humber....

http://dustydocs.com/link/22/30341/97249/baptisms-1813-1844-lincs-to-the-past.html    = image 66 of 108)
Barton on Humber Baptisms
19th Nov 1831 - Benjamin BRUIN - parents Benjamin & Ellen - occupation Travelling Brazier.

There is  a Benjamin here - 1841 = HO107 /Piece 622 /Book  12 /Folio 4 /Page 1 - Sleaford

As it seems the Brewin family travelled with work they could have been anywhere......

1841 - Piece 651 / Book 2 / Folio 11 /Page 16 - St Botolph, Lincoln, Lincolnshire
The household has a Joseph & Ellen Dixon.... but also;
 Elizabeth Brewin born abt 1826
Sarah Brewin born abt 1829
Ellen Brewin born abt 1835

There are two marriages which took place at St Botolph, Lincoln

29th Aug 1842 St Botolph, Lincoln - Elizabeth Glover Brewen to Alfred Boswell
Brides father: Benjamin Brewen
Grooms father: Zachariah Boswell
~ ~
25th May 1846 St Botolph, Lincoln - Sarah Glover Brewen to William West
Brides father: Benjamin Brewen
Grooms father: Thomas West
~ ~ ~
Parents marriage =
Name:   Benjamin Brewin
Spouse's Name:   Elenor Glover
Event Date:   16 Sep 1822
Event Place:   Sculcoates, York, England
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I03300-0 ,
~ ~ ~ ~

Sarah is here in 1851.... which says she was born abt 1829 in Kirton in Lindsey, Linc.
1851 = HO107/Piece 2105/ Folio 579/ Page46 - 22, West Gate Castle Dyke, Lincoln.


Here is her Baptism record..... http://dustydocs.com/link/22/30643/100086/baptisms-1813-1844-lincs-to-the-past.html  -  image 52 of 107

Baptism - 12th Nov 1828 - Kirton in Lindsey, Lincs.
Sarah dau of Benjamin & Eleanor Bruen - abode: "States himself as belonging to the parish of All Saints, Leicester".
occupation = Travelling Umbrella Maker.
~ ~ ~ ~


1841 Piece 651 / Book 2 / Folio 11 /Page 16 - St Botolph, Lincoln, Lincolnshire
The household has a Joseph & Ellen Dixon.... but also;
Elizabeth Brewin born abt 1826
Sarah Brewin born abt 1829
Ellen Brewin born abt 1835


1851 - Piece 2089/ Folio 296/ Page13 - Burleys Lane, in a yard, Leicester.
Eleanor Gregory, Head   Widow, aged  50 - born Isle Ely, Cambridge.
Eleanor D'o, Daughter, un, aged  17 - born Hull, Yorks.
Joseph Dixon,Lodger,Widower, aged 56 - born Essex
Benjamin Brewin, Lodger, Mar,   aged 19 - born Barton, Lincoln.

1861 - Piece 2291 /Folio 14 /Page 21 - 37, Royal East Street, Leicester.
Benjamin Brewing, head, un? aged 29 ,  Cutter or Cutler? - born Barton on Humber, Lincs.
Susannah Mattock?, visitor, un, aged 30 - born Leicester.
&
1861 next door at 39, Royal East Street = Joseph Dixon born Essex & Ellen Gregory born Isle Ely, Cambridge,
both aged 67 - Ellen described as cousin.

1871 - Piece 3279 /Folio 76 /Page 9  -  43, Royal East Street, St Margaret, Leicester.
Jo's Dixon, Head, Mar, aged 77, Grinder, born Whalley Camp?, Essex
Ellen Dixon, wife, mar, aged 77, born Ely.
~ ~ ~ ~

[Dizzifish]

What a tangled web..... and it looks likely John Merchant may never have married Ellen ?

A shortened transcript to get the idea of events........

Leicester Chronicle  - 4th March 1865

Leicester Spring Assizes

Thomas BARNES, was charged with marrying on November 7th 1864, Emma Taylor, during the life of his wife, ELLEN GLOVER BARNES. - Mr Palmer conducted the prosecution; and Mr Orridge the defence.
Benjamin BREWIN stated that he knew the prisoner, who married his sister, Ellen Glover Brewin, about thirteen years ago at St Margaret's church. He was present at the marriage and gave her away. They lived together some years and had one child. They then left one another, and had been parted some time.
Since she had been away from him, she had had two children.  He heard she went into the Union, and that Barnes paid thirty shillings to be divorced.
 
Witnesses had seen the prisoner and his wife  together in the street last July.....
another witness proved having seen them drinking together  at the Red White & Blue beerhouse.....

...Clerk of St John's district church, produced a certificate of the marriage of that place of prisoner, described as a bachelor of full age to Emma Taylor, of Chatham Street, on November 7, 1864. - HIs lordship inquired if his second wife was forthcoming. Mr Palmer replied that she was not under his control, and that he could not carry the case any further, - His lordship said that these cases were of very different characters according to the circumstances.
In a case where the woman knew the whole state of things, and went through with the ceremony of marriage merely to satisfy her conscience, the offence was comparatively small; but where a woman was betrayed, believing she was contracting a valid marriage, the offence was most atrocious......

....... The jury found the prisoner guilty, but strongly recommended him to mercy.  - Two months hard labourer.