Author Topic: Richard Smith Cordwainer in British Navy  (Read 5505 times)

Offline Dramagal27

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Richard Smith Cordwainer in British Navy
« on: Saturday 05 April 14 16:28 BST (UK) »
Hello. I grew up in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, the same place where my Smith relatives settled in 1870. My great-grandfather was born in 1834 in London (I assume he was born there because that's where he and his wife gave birth to my grandfather in 1863, also named Richard Smith. By the way, my grandfather Richard was a "true Cockney" according to my mom by virtue of his birthplace). Richard Sr. joined the navy as a boy and learned the trade of shoemaking (or cordwaining) on the ship. I know the ship he was on participated in stopping slavery ships and also went to the Crimea.

Because Richard Smith is such a common name, I wonder if I am looking for a needle in a haystack. Btw: His first wife was Anne Elizabeth (the same name as their daughter who was born around 1867). They set out to come to Canada in 1870, but somehow only Richard Sr. and two of his three children made it. I don't know if his wife and other son (name unknown) died en route or prior to leaving. I also think Richard Jr. was a twin, but I'm not sure.

If you were me, where would you go next to investigate further? Thanks for your help.

Offline rosie99

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Re: Richard Smith Cordwainer in British Navy
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 05 April 14 18:14 BST (UK) »
Hi

Welcome to rootschat  :)

What information does Richard Snr's second marriage give about his father.

Rosie
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Offline Dramagal27

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Re: Richard Smith Cordwainer in British Navy
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 05 April 14 18:21 BST (UK) »
Hi. Thanks Rosie for the welcome.

Richard Sr.'s parents were Joseph and Mary according to his marriage license for wife number 2.


Offline crimea1854

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Re: Richard Smith Cordwainer in British Navy
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 06 April 14 08:07 BST (UK) »
My first thought was how and where did you find information on Richard Snrs naval service? It is possible that surviving naval records could establish his place of birth, but I would certainly like to know a little more about his service before commenting further.

Martin


Offline Dramagal27

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Re: Richard Smith Cordwainer in British Navy
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 06 April 14 13:29 BST (UK) »
Hi Martin. How did I get the info re the naval service? From the time I was little, my mother told me that her father's father was in the British navy and that he learned his trade (shoemaking/cordwaining) there. Unfortunately, my mother has since passed away, so I can no longer learn anymore from her. However, I had been documenting (i.e., writing down what she told me) her family stories for over thirty years. I should tell you that I have spoken to someone who is a senior writer on all things military (a family friend), and he told me that the records for the "ratings" (the lower branches of the navy, correct?) at this time were not as well kept as they were later. Furthermore, my mother told me that her grandfather had entered the navy at age 9 which would have been around 1844. Again, our family friend tells me that they were not allowing young boys into the navy at that time. I am confused. What complicates my research is that an initial search of navy men of the time brought up an incredibly high number of people named, "Richard Smith".

I appreciate any help you can give me. Thanks for this.

Offline crimea1854

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Re: Richard Smith Cordwainer in British Navy
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 06 April 14 13:46 BST (UK) »
It is true that the records for ratings can be a little hit and miss. Continuous Service in the Navy was first introduced in 1853, but did not become compulsory until 1873, so for twenty years it was possible to be in the navy, serving only for the duration of a ships commission - around 3 years, then to sign on in a merchant ship, re-entering the navy at a later date.

The records on the National Archives website are only for men who did sign up for Continuous Service. However, if you knew the name of a ship your ancestor served on, there are Muster and Ship's Description Books where quite a bit of information can be found. Of particular value are the Ship's Description Books, because these include a good deal of personal information in addition to details of a mans service. Unfortunately, unlike Army records, none of these contain any family information.

Martin

Offline Dramagal27

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Re: Richard Smith Cordwainer in British Navy
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 06 April 14 14:30 BST (UK) »
Ok. I may have to try a different route to find him. Since I don't have a clue what ship he was on, I may be looking for a needle in a haystack. As well, because two of his children (my grandfather included) were born in London, I just assumed that he was also a Londoner. However, perhaps he joined in the north and got out in the south By the way, I have found a Richard Smith, born in 1834, in Whickham,Durham,England. Was there a navy base close to here? Also, how would a young boy have traveled to a navy base (at Liverpool? Portsmouth? Hastings? etc.) at that time?

Thanks.

Online ShaunJ

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Re: Richard Smith Cordwainer in British Navy
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 06 April 14 19:16 BST (UK) »
Quote
I have found a Richard Smith, born in 1834, in Whickham,Durham,England
Where was that reference?

There is a merchant navy record for a Richard Smith born London 2 May 1834, apprentice, ticket number 520 310 issued at Newcastle 3 April 1851
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Offline ladybird

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Re: Richard Smith Cordwainer in British Navy
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 06 April 14 20:40 BST (UK) »
Sorry to butt in.
Shaun can you tell me please where you got the apprentice ticket number in Newcastle.
My grandfather (b 1872) left school at 14 and was away at sea for a year. During which time his mother died so he would have joined about 1886, probably in Newcastle where he was born.
Are there records available somewhere?
Sylvia
Main names:
Scotland (Travellers) - Townsend/Townsley, Conway, Stewart
Lanark and Stirling - Jeffrey.
Northumberland/ Durham - Newton, Nixon, Sharp, Greaves, Naters
Warwickshire and London - Garfield.
Ireland, Co. Kerry - Marah/Meara/Mara, McClure, Howard, Melvin
Lincs - Smith, Vinter

other offshoots - Berry, Steven, Craig, Atkins, Fuller, , Stewart, Conway, Heather,

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