George E. Simmons & Dora Turner/Charity Waller of Essex

[092086]

A lot of questions.

I did however, take this out of a spreadsheet I found on Google.

Mar   M   George         Charity WALLER   11 Aug 1850 @ Keymer
Mar   F   Elizabeth   George Edward SIMMONS   Charity WALLER --- 17 Feb 1851 @ Clayton
Bir   F   Fannie   George Edward SIMMONS   Charity WALLER --- 14 Apr 1852 @ Brighten
Mar   M   Joseph B.   George Edward SIMMONS   Charity WALLER --- 5 May 1854 @Clayton Keymer
Mar   M   Jesse   George Edward SIMMONS   Charity WALLER --- 15 Dec 1855 @ Clayton Keymer
Bir   F   Sarah Ann   George Edward SIMMONS   Charity WALLER --- 14 Dec 1856 @ Clayton Keymer
Mar   F   Ellen   George Edward SIMMONS   Charity WALLER --- 6 Mar 1859 @ Keymer
Mar   F   Charity   George Edward SIMMONS   Charity WALLER --- 5 Apr 1860 @ Keymer
Mar   M   George William   George Edward SIMMONS   Charity WALLER   31 May 1861 @ Keymer
Chr   F   Mary Jane   George Edward SIMMONS   Charity WALLER --- 26 Mar 1863 @ Clayton
Mar   F   Carolina   George Edward SIMMONS   Charity WALLER --- 10 Mar 1865 @ Clayton
Mar   F   Harriet   George Edward SIMMONS   Charity WALLER --- 10 Mar 1865
Mar   M   George         Dora TURNER   28 Dec 1874

[crisane]

Children of Dora according to the censuses. Doesn't mean there werent some who were born and died between the censuses.
Charles W 1862 US
Annie K 1865 US
George A 1867 UK
Dora M 1869 UK
Arthur 1873 UK
Ethel M 1876 UK
Amy 1870 UK
Alfred 1877 UK
Ernest 1882 UK

I have to leave this for a while but I will come back to it.

[092086]

Children of Dora according to the censuses. Doesn't mean there werent some who were born and died between the censuses.
Charles W 1862 US
Annie K 1865 US
George A 1867 UK
Dora M 1869 UK
Arthur 1873 UK
Ethel M 1876 UK
Amy 1870 UK
Alfred 1877 UK
Ernest 1882 UK

I have to leave this for a while but I will come back to it.

Appreciate it

This is also interesting
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=37369269

[crisane]

Death reg for George Simmons March 1/4 1907 Epping vol 4a page 284  Age at death 77.
Epping covers Chigwell district which is where your Simmons family lived for decades.
Dora is a widow and living with her son Alfred in the 1911 census.
What puzzles me is who the heck gave the information for the obit in 1902? It seems completely out of wack with the info on the censuses and some of the dates are completely wrong. They have Dora as dying in 1904 when she is with her son in 1911.
Your George and Doris only seem to have been in US in the early 1860's. I will see if I can find any travel records for them.
This needs sorting big time.

[crisane]

Censuses and children for george Simmons and Charity in Sussex give these children
1851 HO107/1642/5231/1
Stubbs House Clayton
George  ag lab and Charity both 22 both born Clayton plus first child Elizabeth 1 month old
1861
Gurrs Cottage Newland Keymer
George Simmons 33 ag lab
Charity 32
Elizabeth 9
Joseph 6
Jesse 5
Sarah A 4
Ellen 2
Charity 1
All born Keymer

By 1871 RG10/1063/77/14two more children George born 1862 and Mary 1864
need to cross check these with the ones given in the trees. I think they are grabbing anyone they can find to put in their tree.  

[crisane]

This is interesting. I took a look on family search.org beta search for the Stephen Andrew Simmons born 1886 Utah. He came up in the 1900 USA census in Charleston county Wallsburg with his parents.
George C (transcribed as C but s/be E) Simmons age 72 gardener born England Jan 1828 parents English. married to present wife 25 years 11 children to this marriage 7 living.
Dora wife born in England April 1855 age 45 both parenjts English
John W born Nov 1880 Utah age 19
Maud B dau born Aug 1882 Utah age 17
Stephen Nov 1886 Utah age 13
Bertha M dau born March 1889 Utah
J William Simmons, grandson born Jan 1888 age 12 Utah.
George gives his year of immigration to the US as 1876 which is why I can't find them in 1881 uk. Now he says he and Dora have been married 25 years so that was 1875 so it was before going to US but it is not Dora born 1841 and married to George Simmons in Essex as this Dora in Utah was born in 1855. Another reason it can't be Dora born 1841 is because she was in England in 1881, 1891, 1901 and 1911.

[crisane]

This looks like Charity born 1860 Sussex in Utah in 1880 US census
Charity Simmons Single 20 servant with the Needham family
Living at Salt Lake City, Salt Lake, Utah
Born 1860  England
Father and mother both born England

I can;t find a marriage for a George Simmons to a Dora Turner in England 1874-76. There is a birth of a Dora Turner in Yorkshire in 1855 but whether she is the one who married George from Sussex.......?

I do not think this family has anything to do with yours at this stage, too many inconsistencies that haven't been accounted for.

[crisane]

Can't locate Charles W 1862 after 1881 census.
1881 RG11/837/59/15 Annie K born 1865 with the Bull family as a servant. Annie is saying she was born Chigwell which may be how she remembers it as she was very young when she came back from US.
Dora Marian born 1869 marriage to Thomas Stephens Epping reg Dist. Sept 1/4 1889 4a/282.
Only a quick look but can't find George A born 1867 after 1881
In 1891 the only Arthur born c1873 I can see at the moment is a blacksmith age 19 born Romford essex (Romford is about 7 miles from Chigwell) so is possible. This Arthur is a lodger with John and Sarah Hempstead at Woodford Bridge.
Ethel M born 1876 is still with her parents so are Alfred 14 and Ernest 9

[092086]

Appreciate all your help, Crisane.

I wouldn't venture past 1881 in the England Census for Arthur as he migrated to Canada in 1890.

Whats really frustrating is what you already mentioned - people who are adding anyone and everyone into their family trees. What's even more interesting is the obituary and the many inconsistencies we are are finding with it. I wonder what kind of drugs the writer was on?

It  really does beg the question though whether or not George indeed did have multiple families abroad and how many others may have existed that I haven't found yet.