Author Topic: ALLSOPP - Researching Family Name  (Read 64080 times)

Offline gmallsopp

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Re: ALLSOPP - Researching Family Name
« Reply #99 on: Monday 23 June 14 14:54 BST (UK) »
im unsure on my family history. im 33 and the only family i have left are sisters an auntie an my father as far as i know.

My grandad passed afew years ago he was called Leonard Allsopp and was born april 29th 1927 died sept 13th 2011. He was married to Dorothy who passed away sept 15 2003 i think it was.

I didnt have much more information as never knew any great grandparents.

Len an dorothy had 2 sons Martyn and Mark an 1 daughter Michelle.

My unlce mark passed away tho in i think 1982 due to cystic fibrosis

Offline janan

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Re: ALLSOPP - Researching Family Name
« Reply #100 on: Monday 23 June 14 15:39 BST (UK) »
Hi

The first thing you need is to talk to any relatives and glean as much info as you can. The you will need your father's birth certificate which will give Dorothy's maiden-name, then you can find a marriage certificate for Leonard which will give his father's name, then Leonard's birth cert and so on and so on systematically backwards. Once you are back to anyone born before 1911 you can find them on censuses as well. If you find any born in Wirksworth you are on to a winner as the site

http://www.wirksworth.org.uk/

is a mine of information.

FreeBMD will help you search for marriages etc after 1837 .

Jan ;)

ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge

Offline laurelnaiad

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Re: ALLSOPP - Researching Family Name
« Reply #101 on: Saturday 16 May 15 01:29 BST (UK) »
I know I'm reviving an old thread, but it's a good one.  8)

The date is iffy. Here are some conflicting sources:

According to Destruction of the Alsop House (Brooklyn Eagle, March 28, 1880):

"Thomas Wandell was the founder of the Alsop family, through Richard Alsop, his nephew, whom he brought from England, while a mere boy, about the year 1665 and adopted as his son and heir."

According to the American Historical Magazine, Volume II, January, 1907 to November, 1907 (The Americana Society, 1907; page 272):

"The first of the name in America was Richard Alsop, who inherited from his uncle, Thomas Wandell, a large estate of Newtown, Long Island. Richard Alsop came to this country between 1670 and 1685, and d. October 17, 1718."

According to Illustrated History of the Borough of Queens New York City (George Von Skal, 1908; page ):

"The Alsop family was also among the early settlers. Richard Alsop, the first of the name to locate here, came at the request of his uncle, one Thomas Wandell, who was said to have left England because he had become involved in a quarrel with Oliver Cromwell, though this report is doubtful, for it is known that Wandell was living at Mespat Kills in 1648, or before Charles I was put to death. He had secured a considerable tract of land by patents and purchase which he left to his nephew, Richard Alsop. The family he founded became extinct in 1837 when the last of the name died without issue."

According to this last one, I don't exist.  :o

Also, I believe the first two of the above quotations are mistaken in that they assume Richard Alsop to be the first Alsop in America ..

The American Historical Magazine statement that Richard is the first colonial Alsop is wrong -- they are different Alsops. Joseph of New Haven, CT, if he's related to Richard of Newtown, NY at all, is only distantly related "way back" in England.  Illustrated History of the Borough of Queens says "first to locate here" which is true if "here" is Newtown, Queens, New York.  ;)

Reasons why Richard of Newtown was the son of James Alsop and Susannah Wandell:

  • Their child Richard was born 29 Nov 1659 (old style): "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J3L6-Z6F : accessed 15 May 2015), Richard Allsope, 27 Nov 1659; citing Wirksworth, Derbyshire, England, reference 2:3T197L3; FHL microfilm 1,041,042. -- this is, for all intents and purposes the same date as the American Richard.
  • They both died in the 1660s.
  • Thomas Wandell, Richard's uncle, is Susannah's older brother:
    ** "England, Derbyshire, Church of England Parish Registers, 1537-1918," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KBD6-RXL : accessed 15 May 2015), Thomas Wandell, 09 Apr 1625; citing Christening, All Saints Church, Derby, Derbyshire, England, Record Office, Matlock; FHL microfilm 1,041,144.
    ** "England, Derbyshire, Church of England Parish Registers, 1537-1918," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KBD6-T2H : accessed 16 May 2015), Zuzanna Wandell, 18 Jun 1628; citing Christening, All Saints Church, Derby, Derbyshire, England, Record Office, Matlock; FHL microfilm 1,041,144.
  • Richard named one of his daughters Susannah (admittedly a pretty weak bit of evidence but it adds to all of the above)

Indeed, it looks like these two Wandells were two of perhaps eight children of Richard Wandell and an unknown mother who were baptised in the 1620s and 1630s in All Saints Church, Derby: https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=50&query=%2Bsurname%3Awandell~%20%2Bbirth_place%3A%22all%20saints%2C%20derbyshire%22~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1610-1630~%20%2Bfather_givenname%3Arichard~


I have that James died: 1668, Wirksworth, Derbyshire, England. I know of only Richard being brought to America. Probably after both parents died, the older children were looking for others to help raise the kids, so Uncle Thomas Wandell must have volunteered to adopt Richard. Do you know who raised Wandell?

I believe it might have been a tad earlier (unless perhaps you have better information?  :o )... I see this:

d. 26 Jul 1665 (old style)
"England Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NG9D-FQL : accessed 16 May 2015), James, 26 Jul 1665; citing Wirksworth, Derbyshire, England, reference ; FHL microfilm 1,041,042.

and this:
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=origins%2flichfieldconsistory%2f553 -- requires payment :( -- (what it says is that James Allsop was a husbandman whose will and inventory are on record in Lichfield Consistory Court Wills, as being from Ashelyhay, Wirksworth, proved 1666).

I would love to get my hands on that will! -- and if it's pertinent to this Alsop family, the bible records that `janan` mentioned!

Regards,
Daphne Maddox (one of the many 11th great-grandchildren of James and Susannah through Richard)  :)

Offline laurelnaiad

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Re: ALLSOPP - Researching Family Name
« Reply #102 on: Saturday 16 May 15 01:54 BST (UK) »
I see now that there are two James Allsops dying in the 1660s in http://www.elkes.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?userid=elkes&view=8&ver=704&lastname=Allsop . Great work on that,by the way!!!

Would a fourteen-year-old be listed as a husbandman and have a will/inventory? I ask because the one listed as dying in 1665 in that tree was 14 years old and the *son* of the other.... is it possible their dates are "backwards" in the tree? Or would a 14 year old be listed as husbandman and have a will/inventory? I'm not asking facetiously -- I really don't know whether the age of majority in England in the 1600s was still that young (I know it was so in earlier times)....


Offline janan

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Re: ALLSOPP - Researching Family Name
« Reply #103 on: Saturday 16 May 15 16:16 BST (UK) »

Hallo very distant cousin Laurelnaiad, welcome to Rootschat :D

I haven't found a burial in Wirksworth for James who married Susanna Wandell - he was still alive on Jan 1st 1667 when Susanna was buried in Wirksworth as she is transcribed as 'wife of James' not 'widow', unless this is a mistake. The James buried in Wirksworth on 26 Jul 1665 is listed as 'son of James', the only son of James is baptised 1651. There is no other burial for a James around this time in the Wirksworth parish records as transcribed here

http://www.wirksworth.org.uk/PR003.htm#27

it is possible that John Palmer missed it off. Burials for Ashlehay would have been in Wirksworth. Without purchasing the will of James , husbandman of Ashlehay it is impossible to say who he was - the Findmypast entry is just the index information which you already have.

Jan ;)

The bible info only goes back to Richard son of Wandell baptised Wirksworth March 19th 1706, so probably of little interest to you, but you are very welcome to a copy.
ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge

Offline laurelnaiad

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Re: ALLSOPP - Researching Family Name
« Reply #104 on: Sunday 17 May 15 20:17 BST (UK) »
Thank you, janan!

> The James buried in Wirksworth on 26 Jul 1665 is listed as 'son of James', the only son of James is baptised 1651.

But there are three Jameses in a row, at least according to http://www.elkes.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?userid=elkes&view=86&pid=3715&ver=704 ... so the two who died in the 1660s would both be sons of one James or the other, at least according to that tree.

>  he was still alive on Jan 1st 1667 when Susanna was buried in Wirksworth as she is transcribed as 'wife of James' not 'widow', unless this is a mistake.

Ahh. :) I see that, now. Thank you for catching me up, my long lost cousin!

Frustrating that we're missing the middle James' death/burial info -- how has everyone concluded that he died in 1668, then, I wonder?

Offline janan

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Re: ALLSOPP - Researching Family Name
« Reply #105 on: Sunday 17 May 15 22:04 BST (UK) »
Hi

Yes there were of course the 3 James, but it is unlikely that an older James would be listed as 'son of' at his burial, that is only the case for minors in my experience, but there could be exceptions.

I don't know where 1668 as year of death for James who married Susanna comes from, I notice Warren only has a year not a burial date so it could be a guess on someone's part. It is a mystery. He is my 7x g grandfather - I'm a bit out with the greats  as my 2x g grandfather was 66 when my g grandfather was born.

Jan ;)

ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge

Offline laurelnaiad

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Re: ALLSOPP - Researching Family Name
« Reply #106 on: Monday 18 May 15 03:05 BST (UK) »
Such a death date is certainly "handy" when you're trying to explain why Thomas Wandell (Susannah's brother) apparently "swooped in" and took their son Richard off to America.... that date fits with such a story very conveniently.  Almost too conveneniently, I fear....

That said, the people who were originally writing in the 1800s of Thomas Wandell's adoption of Richard seemed to  know nothing about the Wandells and Alsops in England when they described the adoption, and such an issue is more of an American concern than a British one anyway, so 1668 probably isn't just derived from that supposition nor vice-versa.

Offline pdadme

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Re: ALLSOPP - Researching Family Name
« Reply #107 on: Saturday 28 May 22 13:27 BST (UK) »
Hi,
I see that this is a very old post, but nonetheless:
My 4th great Uncle John Massey died at Marston on Dove, according to his probate.  John was baptised at Mugginton 1744 the son of Thomas Massey and Hannah Harrison.
John's brother Thomas was my 4g grandfather and according to his probate, he died at Hungry Bentley.  Thomas Massey is describe as a farmer on his marriage license. It seems likely that the family were farmers at Hungry Bentley as the farm is the only abode in the parish of Hungry Bentley, which is described as "a deserted medieval village and civil parish". You can find it on google maps if you search Hungry Bentley.
Thomas married Ann Holmes by license in 1783 and their son John was my 3g grandfather. He was a schoolmaster at Turnditch, a few miles away from Hungry Bentley.
...The quest continues

Regards
Phil How