Author Topic: leadsdale  (Read 10335 times)

Offline confused73

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Re: leadsdale
« Reply #18 on: Sunday 02 November 14 23:36 GMT (UK) »
Thanks jm,  obviously it was not William on that ship, another mystery to solve. Did you look at the site that Jenb posted ? So he was Liddell, not Leadsdale as we thought, a real conman. I now wonder who the other Leadsales were; and what he got up to as William Green?
The Leadsdale who sailed from Perth could be his son, we have his birth cert and it was under Leadsdale, although he reverted to Liddell on the census. On one of the early census he is down as a steward on a ship, taking after his father.
Once again thank you very much for all the information.   Regards Ll
Bottle,Wheatley Marsh, Williams, Dowling,    Penrose, Gilbert

Offline majm

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Re: leadsdale
« Reply #19 on: Sunday 02 November 14 23:52 GMT (UK) »
"Liddell" v "Leadsdale"  may well just be poor handwriting by the scribe rather than deliberate action of your William.     "dell" and "dale" are easily mis-read from 19th Century long hand  by 21st century transcribers when these two (dell / dale ) are trailing syllables for surnames in lists recorded by a 19th Century scribe after hearing them spoken.    "Lid" v "Leads" can also be poorly transcribed too.    Not everyone in the 19th century was a good speller.   So much of the 19th Century records are based on a person who was not a family member actually writing down the information.  So while the informant spoke the words, the scribe needed to be familiar with the accent, and a good speller and had the penmanship skills to write neatly.   

I am not convinced that your chap was purposefully a 'conman'   :)   

Cheers,  JM
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Offline majm

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Re: leadsdale
« Reply #20 on: Sunday 02 November 14 23:56 GMT (UK) »
Did you look at the site that Jenb posted ? So he was Liddell, not Leadsdale as we thought, a real conman. I now wonder who the other Leadsales were; and what he got up to as William Green?

"Described in Pay List 1 Jan - 31 MAR 1868 as William Leadsdale alias William Green (Regiment number 922)
13 Jul 1869 Discharged invalided - to reside at Holyhead"


So, not in NSW during 1868  :)

Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline judb

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Re: leadsdale
« Reply #21 on: Monday 03 November 14 00:37 GMT (UK) »
Not very helpful...
The only LEADSDALE surname reference that came up for me on TROVE is for a passenger LEADSDALE on the Nemesis leaving Albany WA on April 25 1898.  I can't see where the the Nemesis was going to, and there is only the surname, no forename given.  From other mentions the Nemesis seems to be a coastal boat, calling at other cities up as far as Geraldton.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/82079342 

Judith
DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

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Offline majm

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Re: leadsdale
« Reply #22 on: Monday 03 November 14 01:38 GMT (UK) »
Hopefully I am not side tracking too far off 1868 NSW Leadsdale NSW Govt Gazette, but concerned about thoughts of him being a ‘conman’ .....

W W LEADSDALE married 22 May 1868 at Bridgeton, Glasgow, Scotland  ( wife as Mary Susanna Fraser)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYW7-4HW

William LEADSDALE married Apr-June 1873 at Holyhead, Anglesey, Wales (wife as Ellen Williams)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KCKY-CKF

Do you have both of those certificates, and if so, have you confirmed that it is the same chap each time (comparing signatures, and the information recorded about Mr Leadsdale on each document) .

You see, I think there may have been TWO chaps ....

Who was the Chelsea Pensioner, named as William LEADSDALE  born about 1834
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5C9-KTV

and who was the OTHER Chelsea Pensioner, named as William LEADSDALE born about 1843, Durham
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5C3-9K7

(Add, perhaps the military were responsible for adding the 'alias' name of William GREEN to distinguish between two chaps named William LEADSDALE)

Births for LEADSDALE Anglesey, Wales   (perhaps I am duplicating info on other threads)

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2X78-CVP  1869 1st Qtr (William)

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2XZY-Y7Z  1874 1st Qtr (Louisa)

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2XFN-YXW  1879 1st Qtr (Rosie)

(Rhetorical question) Who was recorded as mother for each of those three Leadsdale births at Anglesey ?   

13 Jul 1869 Discharged invalided - to reside at Holyhead"

Cheers,  JM 
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline majm

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Re: leadsdale
« Reply #23 on: Monday 03 November 14 02:02 GMT (UK) »
Yes, it seems (from my armchair online searchings only) that there were two different William LEADSDALE chaps who were Chelsea Pensioners (despite the info notes from the linked website )
Have you seen this http://www.bayanne.info/Shetland/getperson.php?personID=I324375&tree=ID1

William LEADSDALE, birth parish KIPLING, born abt 1834  service No. 3917, East Lancashire Regiment 30th & 59th Foot
And
William LEADSDALE, birth parish SHIELS, born abt 1843, service No. 922, King’s Own Scottish Borderers – 25th Foot

http://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-world-Records/british-army-service-records-1760-1915 (as per an online free to search index)


Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline Aussie1947

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Re: leadsdale
« Reply #24 on: Monday 03 November 14 06:19 GMT (UK) »
Hi, I have access to the NSW Government Gazettes at the Family History Society that I'm a member of, I'll see if I can get there on Thursday to search for Leadsdale.

Gerry

Offline confused73

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Re: leadsdale
« Reply #25 on: Monday 03 November 14 08:26 GMT (UK) »
Hi JM,  I agree at first we thought that there were two men, but it seemed too much of a coincidence.  We made a time table of the army records, and compared their descriptions, almost identical.  The time table never overlapped, when he deserted from one regiment, he was at the other. Big question WHY.  Birth dates and places of birth mmm but 34. and 43 dates reversed.? Then there is the fact that there are three births all in Holyhead, a bit out. 'Of the way.'
Birth certificates, we have all three and with William the son, mother Mary Susanna, the other two mother Ellen.  I only have the marriage details of the first marriage from a Scotlands people record. But have a copy of Ellen and Williams marriage cert. Different name for Williams father and he is down as a steward on a ship. William is named on Louise 's certificate, but on Rosies there is nothing for father, was he the father? who knows, born in the workhouse.  That is the last record of him with Ellen. The fact that apart from the married couple who only appear once, there are no other recorded Leadsdales, the baby I think could be Mary Susannas....
  It is good to have you question our thoughts, made us go over what we know, well as far as we can assume from the records that we have.
Regards Ll
Bottle,Wheatley Marsh, Williams, Dowling,    Penrose, Gilbert

Offline confused73

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Re: leadsdale
« Reply #26 on: Monday 03 November 14 08:34 GMT (UK) »
Hi Gerry, sorry I meant to say iit would be great if you could see what was on the Government Gazettes, might prove that JM is right a nd there were two William Leadsdales. Thank you.
Bottle,Wheatley Marsh, Williams, Dowling,    Penrose, Gilbert