Author Topic: Somervilles of Ballyhannon/Portadown  (Read 35910 times)

Offline D-N

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 8
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Somervilles of Ballyhannon/Portadown
« Reply #27 on: Monday 21 May 12 10:44 BST (UK) »
Hi, Thank you so much for your replies, much food for thought.  I made a mistake in transcribing the marriage extract for Joseph McAvoy and Jane Hopps in that the England witness was Joseph England (not James).  I recently had contact with someone researching this line and they sent me their marriage being:

Page 91, 1857 - Marriage solemised at the Parish Church in the Parish of Seagoe in the County Armagh.
No. 182
Date of Marriage: 13 March 1857
Parish/District: Seagoe CI
County: Armagh
Husband: Joseph England, Knock Parish of Seagoe, Weaver, Age 25, Bachelor, Bachelor (Previously unmarried) Father James England Farmer. Mother not recorded.
Wife: Elizabeth Ann McAvoy, Knocknamuckly Civil Parish, Weaver, Age 22, Spinster (Previously unmarried), Father Bernard McAvoy, Weaver, Mother unrecorded.
Witnesses: Francis Hollywood and George Somerville.
Married in the Parish Church by C. Wolseley Curate, Parish of Knocknamuckly.

My McAvoys (also recorded at times as M'Avoy, McEvoy) to the best of my knowledge and information from late great-aunts were originally all Church of Ireland, later some Methodists and Presbyterians, even Salvation Army with one of Joseph and Jane's children.

I am sure somewhere amongst all this is some sort of relationship now its just establishing it, vbg.  I certainly will check out the Lewis/Lucas side.  I have found at Family Search a possible death for a Lewis McAvoy born about 1812, died 1882 which may fit but as yet not able to order the film to check it out.


Offline D-N

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 8
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Somervilles of Ballyhannon/Portadown
« Reply #28 on: Monday 21 May 12 13:26 BST (UK) »
Hi Kat, Sorry I don't have anything regarding James McEvoy.  There was a son James born 11 June 1878 to Joseph McAvoy and Jane Hopps but he died as a baby or young child, so too another child Eliza Ann born 27 December 1867.  Ten other children survived to adulthood and nine married.

As to location of William Hopps I took it from the marriage of Jane in that they had her from Ballydugan (spelt that way on the extract).  I've found references to a William Hopps at Lisnamintry (Griffiths Valuation 1864), 1918 Lurgan Directory Legahorry (doubt mine).  I'm not able to tell if he is mine.  My late great-grandfather William John McAvoy (born 9/6/1862, Knocknamuckly) went back for a visit to his siblings in 1926 and a photo I have shows a William (Bill) Hopps, Mary Hopps and niece Stella Leckie taken on a road in front of a cottage near Lurgan.  Sadly he didn't mark what the relationship was but great-aunts said they were cousins.

Going to try to attach the marriage certificate and photo if I can.

Moderator Note: image removed- you may only post a small portion of a certificate for deciphering purposes. Please read Rootschat copyright policy (link at bottom of page)

Offline KatC

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 284
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Somervilles of Ballyhannon/Portadown
« Reply #29 on: Monday 21 May 12 18:26 BST (UK) »
he William Hopps in Lisnamintry had land there, but not a home says Griffiths.  The Wm Hopps in Crossnamahilly was a farmer  born about 1817, married Eliza b 1827 and has children William John b 1849 and Eliza Ann b 1855.  I know nothing about the  Clanrolla Wm Hopps.   

There is a fair chance that James McAvcy in Knocknamuckley was previously married to Elizabeth Chambers.  Possibly sons Joseph and James have a middle name of Henry.  I can't find the marriage.  James and Joseph went to Amsterdam, NY and Joseph died in Springfield, MA after following his Symington in-laws to there.   2nd wife Matilda's son William John married Charlotte Jane and was buried at Knocknamuckley in 1973. 

Can you find anything on the Chambers marriage?

Can you access the maps on askaboutireland to see how the McEvoy land is grouped on a map in 1864?  That might point to land divided among sons.

Is Stella Leckie the daughter of William Andrew and Ann (Hopps) Leckie in the 1911 census? She would be born about 1906 and about 20 in the photograph.  The most logical Annie is the daughter of Thomas and Margaret (marsden) Hopps on Victoria St, not Hill St. , in 1901. Thomas was born about 1845 and William should be a brother, if niece is a term correctly applied. The Hopps/Marsden marriage record would give William's father if this logic is correct.  Please see if you agree?  I think we need help with marriages.



Offline D-N

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 8
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Somervilles of Ballyhannon/Portadown
« Reply #30 on: Tuesday 22 May 12 03:15 BST (UK) »
Hi Kat, Interestingly a son of Joseph and Janes, Thomas Henry McAvoy and his wife Minnie Brown (dau. of John Brown and Mary Graham) migrated to USA in 1903 going to Minnie's sister Edith who married Edward Swain settling at 208 South Street, Holyoke, Hampden County, Massachusetts.  Tom and Minnie lived at 210 South Street.  Wonder if Tom also had McAvoy rellies there too.  A couple of years ago I was in touch with someon searching James McAvoy and Elizabeth Chambers, didn't know more marriages with James.  I've just emailed her and hopefully her address is same and can pursue this further.  Meanwhile I'll go over all the messages and try to digress it all.  Many, Many thanks.


Offline D-N

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 8
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Somervilles of Ballyhannon/Portadown
« Reply #31 on: Tuesday 22 May 12 13:46 BST (UK) »
Ireland, Civil Registration Marriages Index, 1845-1958:

Elizabeth Chambers married James McEvoy in 1871, Registration District Banbridge, Volume 11, Page 269, FHL Film No. 101251. 

Children (Ireland, Births and Baptisms, 1620-1911):

1. William John McAvoy, born 2/4/1877, Knocknamuckley, Armagh, Ireland, Father James McAvoy, Mother Elizabeth McAvoy Chambers, FHL Film No. 255978.

2. James Henry McAvoy, Born 25/5/1879, Knocknamuckley, Armagh, Ireland, Father James McAvoy, Mother Elizabeth Chambers, FHL Film No. 256032.


Offline KatC

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 284
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Somervilles of Ballyhannon/Portadown
« Reply #32 on: Tuesday 22 May 12 22:58 BST (UK) »
The computers at the census bldg were finally working and I saw your tree.  The Ballydougan location for Jane Hopps is extremely clear.   All the Wm Hopps entries in Griffith seem to be references  land owned by one man.

James McAvoy  arrived in 1905 to go to brother Joseph saying then that he was born 1881 and later 1883..  He promptly calls himself Harry and  rents a home and heads back to Ireland to get married to Elizabeth Bell who is probably from Ballyhannon.  He returns and becomes James H. McAvoy and she arrives in 1906.  However, she goes back to Ireland about 1910 probably before her first baby Lucy is born.  He lived with some ex-Knocknamuckley  folk at that time.  The ellis island entry of her return confused me and I will get to this.  They go on to have  Jessie, Joseph H., Eunice. Elizabeth, and Mabel and move to a nearby town.  They return to visit Ireland in 1951. James is not in the 1901 census, but by a long stretch, may be in Stevenson, Ayrshire in 1901.

Joseph McAvoy claims to be born July 28, 1884 and also in 1887.  A Ballydougan/Portadown man lives with him in 1910 and he has married a Cloncore Elizabeth Symington. He moved to the Bronx by 1930 and lists a middle initial of J, not H.  His gravestone says "C' which  could be a penmanship error or could indicate a mother's maiden name. He moved to Springfield, MA after having children Ida, Lawrence J. and Howard.  The Joseph H. that appears in the Amsterdam newspapers may be the son of his brother, aiding in my confusion.  Joseph's emigration is not obvious on ellisisland unless he stayed a bit in Glasgow.  The Elizabeth arriving to Jos H. McAvoy, husband, was actually going to Jas. H. McAvoy, my mistake.  In 1942, Joseph claimed he was born in Belfast, but claims are often distorted by then.  There was a tree available at ancestry at one point, but seems no longer available.  I have asked the Symington researcher whether she knows more, but the message isn't smoothly reaching her. 

There was extremely high level of recruitment of Knocknamuckley families by an Amsterdam carpet mill especially in 1903. Most of the Irish arriving at that time were from there.   Portadown people were flowing to So. Manchester, Connecticut at the same time.  Things were very localized.   Families went to friends, associated with those friends in the new home, and then moved on to other locations as opportunities arrived. Springfield and nearby Holyoke,MA and  Paterson, NY were typical.

I am very interested in the Lewis as the middle name of one of Matilda and James's children. I really think there is a connection, and Thomas renting to Lucas/Lewis is typical of a father/ son rental which this is not.  Did you see that Bernard's home was similar but opposite?  Also that it runs at an angle to the street which reduced taxes early on.  Possibly that means the houses were there for some time and this is a family that moved in before the tax structure changed in ??? year.  (Windows facing the street were taxed, so oldest houses are often at an angle to the street.)

I need to order tapes and will try for the marriage record from Banbridge.

Offline KatC

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 284
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Somervilles of Ballyhannon/Portadown
« Reply #33 on: Wednesday 23 May 12 18:24 BST (UK) »
July 13, 1854  Lucas and Elizabeth baptized James McEvoy at Knocknamuckley.  So this agrees reasonably with James married to Matilda in the 1901 census.  Then came William in 1858.


Offline D-N

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 8
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Somervilles of Ballyhannon/Portadown
« Reply #34 on: Thursday 24 May 12 14:28 BST (UK) »
I am afraid I haven't had any of this information so trying to sort it out.  My Joseph McAvoy, son of Lewis was born in approximately 1835.  He did not migrate and died about 1905.  The closest that might match from LDS Family Search, Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958 is Joseph M'Avoy, Registered Lurgan, Reg. Quarter & Year Jan-Mar 1905, Estimated Birty 1839, Age 66, Film 101602, Volume 1, Page No. 590, Dig. Folder No. 4201706, Image No. 00515.

Jane Hopps/McAvoy is Jane M'Avoy, Reg. Lurgan, Oct-Dec 1880, Estd. Birth Year 1839, Aged 41, Film No. 101590, Vol. 1, Page 494, Dig. Folder No. 4200672, Image No. 00287.

I need to order these films from LDS centre which at present I haven't been able to get to one to do so, hopefully soon.

I really appreciate your efforts.

Offline KatC

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 284
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Somervilles of Ballyhannon/Portadown
« Reply #35 on: Friday 25 May 12 00:04 BST (UK) »
Kingskerswell provided a ton of help:     
11 Jan 1877 James McEvoy married Elizabeth Chambers in Seagoe Church of Ireland, Lurgan.
 26 Nov 1898 James McEvoy married Matilda Irwin in Seagoe Church of Ireland, Lurgan

Matilda Irwin b Aug 30, 1869 is the daughter of Pierce Irwin and Eliza Somerville and sister of Jane Irwin b Mar 21, 1872, Thomas Feb 16, 1865, and William Robert b 13 Aug 1867  .  Eliza's father is Robert and his wife is Matilda.  Elizabeth Somerville was born Nov 5, 1838 and has brothers John b Oct 12,1828 and William b Sept 25, 1831.  Daveyh provided most of this information.  Pierce's father is Thomas Irwin.  In 1857 Thomas Irwin 59 and Jane 62 are in Ballydougan and have children Mary 24, a teacher, Pierce 23, Agnes 22, William 21, and Henry 19.  Pierce and Eliza  were married at Seagoe 23 Apr 1864. 

So there is a Somerville circle and There are some more sibling marriages and Irwin witnesses to marriages including one of Toberhuney George Hopps, son of Isaac. 

There are probably too many Elizabeth Chambers to guess who are her parents without the marriage record.  Possibly John and Ann Chambers of Knocknamuckley might be parents as they went to the same church and lived in the same town.  She would be about 4-5 years older than he.