James Cecil

[Billsharpe]

It is probable that Charles Cecil would have had some connections, as apprenticeships at the Bridewell Hospital were much sought after and on completion the apprentice was given enough money to start his own business (Locks gift) and given the Freedom of the City of London. It also would not have been unusual for the Cecil's to have lived in Westminster as that area had it's fair share of slum dwellings in the 17th/18th Century, the area also boasted the only free hospital for the poor in London which was situated at Petty France close to what is now the passport office, so even if the family lived in Spitalfields at that time they may still have been born in Westminster hospital which is only about two miles from the City of London.
Charles would have not been a poverty stricken labourer but a Master Weaver who probably employed several weavers including the family of Judith Raby who as Huguenots were not allowed to be master weavers but were officially designated the title of 'Stranger,.
It was not until many years later that the weaving industry was destroyed by introduction of machinery which put thousands of these erstwhile artisans onto the scrap heap where they were forced to take on menial work as dock labourers or bootmakers . . . .  That is the period in which Bethnal Green became infamous for it's poverty and social deprivation.
I descend from Charles Son,  George, who was a mater weaver and his son William who became a publican and at one time managed the Eagle in City Road, made famous in the nursery rhyme 'Pop goe's the Weasel'. Followed by his son George and then yet another George who were both labourers. His daughter Mary-Ann Cecil was my Great Grandmother.
Most of their descendents ended up working in the docks but my generation have done much better thanks to the values inculcated into us by our ancestors.
I believe it is quite possible somewhere in history that we descend from the aristocratic Cecil's but it really doesn't matter as they were a devious nasty family. More interesting is a look at the Old Bailey records for that period (1600s/1700s) where we find Henry Cecil, John Cecil  as regular defendants for petty thieving, and then there is Richard Cecil hanged when he was only twenty for burglary.
An interesting family, and there are thousands of their descendants scattered all over the world.

[The Ancestor]

The Cecils of Bethnal Green and Spittalfields cropped up in last nights "Who Do You Think You Are". Silk Weaver Daniel Cecil of Elder Street, Spittalfields whose will pr. 22 Jul 1837 was an ancestor of Len Goodman.

[pacemaker]

I also watched the programme and noted the probability of Len Goodmans' relatives being the descendents of Charles Cecil and Judith Madelaine Raby

Pacemaker

[dcissell]

Hi wjough,

In trying to track our lines from here in the States back to the UK Cecils, we also see a lot of "imaginative" pedigrees on the IGI and elsewhere.  So I do agree with the cautions that dawnsh provided.

While we tend to concentrate on the Wales, or nearby, Cecil branches; we still have no real documented information on which branch of the Cecils our original ancestors came from.  As such, your Bethnal Green or Westminster branch remains a possibility.

In the absence of known paper records, we have tried using DNA testing.  One descendant of Thomas Cecil, Earl of Exeter and son of William Cecil, Lord Burghley, did agree to test for us.  He matched us quite well. This does not necessarily mean that we are direct descendents of the well-known Burghley, but it does mean that we do both have a common male ancestor.  So, sometimes it is possible to determine family connections when the paper trail has some major gaps.

[gothitjulie]

New info available for Charles Cecil 1717ish under:

London, England, Freedom of the City Admission Papers, 1681-1925

Looks for Cherks Cecil

It says that Charles Cecil's father was Charles Cecil & the parish which he was from was St John The Evangelist, that only opened 1728 I think, so a trip to look at St Margaret's baptisms is my next port of call.

Moderator comment: edited for content

[richarde1979]

Good find gothitjulie, and it does open up the possibility he may indeed have been the son of Charles Cecil and Elizabeth Lumley after all.

[gothitjulie]

Good find gothitjulie, and it does open up the possibility he may indeed have been the son of Charles Cecil and Elizabeth Lumley after all.

Maybe so, but I still want it written in triplicate in blood before it gets onto my tree.

I still have a later link that I can't tied up properly so I'm still not certain of my own ancestry along the Cecil lines before I even get back to anywhere near Charles. The problem I have is with a Sarah Ann Cecil, I have her death in 1899 with an age of 51 (so around 1848 for birth), I have her marriage to a Norris in 1866 which states she is a spinster & that her father was John Cecil, a weaver, but I can't find her on census & can't find her baptism. I'm not too happy to say the least & am trawling thousands of pages for these items. I do have the baptisms of her children so know they were living on the edge of the Nichol at that time in various addresses, perhaps that's why the records are hiding from me 

More trips to LMA & Westminster archives will ensue methinks before I solve this.

As a side note, the St Matthew Bethnal Green baptism entries from 1843 that are missing on ancestry, I have images taken from the films at LMA of all the Cecil entries from the missing period if anyone should need them, the entries are:

18 Jun 1843 Louisa Cecil, dau of Thomas & Ester, Manchester Street, Weaver. Born 21 May 1843.

14 Jan 1844 James John Cecil, son of James & Sarah Susannah, White Street, Weaver. Born 18 Dec 1843.

6 Oct 1846 Sarah Caroline _ Cecil, dau of James & Sarah, Tent Street, Weaver. Born 10 Sep 1846.

13 Jan 1847 Elizabeth Cecil, dau of Samuel & Elizabeth, Wilmot Street, Weaver. Born 18 Dec 1846.

29 Oct 1848 Samuel Cecil, son of George & Elizabeth, St Andrew's Street, Weaver. Born 20 Sep 1848.

26 Nov 1848 William Cecil, son of William & Mary Cecil, Andrew Street, Weaver. Born 4 Nov 1848.

26 Jan 1851 Thomas Edward Cecil, son of James & Sarah Susannah, Tent Street, Fireman (note James's change of trade). Born 2 Jan 1851.

[gothitjulie]

St Margaret's, Westminster

20 February 1716/17 Charles Cecil S. of Charles by Eliz.  born 2 Feb 1716/17

I have images of the entry in the parish records if anyone wants them.


I'm reasonably happy that's the correct Charles Cecil since we now have the other information on him being from the parish of St John The Evangelist, Westminster. Next to go through the marriages to make sure of his mother's surname.

[richarde1979]

Again well done gothitjulie. Certainly I have found 14 is a very usual age for an apprenticeship, so that fits well too. I agree almost certainly him.