Bath HOOPER Elizabeth

[Peonie]

Hi all,

Elizabeth Hooper  1852  and her brother John 1850 both born  Lansdown, mother Marshman (Bath BMD). I can't find a marriage for Hooper/Marshman. There are no other children to this couple.

I think I found the family in the 1851 census HO107, piece 1943, folio 71, page 32, father John, mother Ann and children Mary 1833, Rachel 1835, Sarah 1843 and John 8 months. Because of the big gaps between the children I assume that this is a second marriage.

By the time the 1861 census came round Elizabeth and John are in the Workhouse in Lyncombe. I found a maybe death for John aged 50 in 1856 in Abbey.

Any help would be appreciated,  Peonie

[patrish]

It would appear that John and Elizabeth are children from a second marriage given the previous child was born in 1843.   Have you found a death for Ann Hooper 

As you seem to have both the childrens birth certificates which gives the mother maiden name as Marsham, it might be that they dident legally marry, even if its says "formerly" that is not a guarantee that a marriage actually took place.

[Peonie]

Thank you patrish,

No death for Ann Hooper with a close age. I thought there might have been 2 earlier marriages, as the gap between Rachel and Sarah is 8 years as well. No luck finding any of them in the 1841 Census. I don't have the actual birth certificates but Bath BMD show mother's name.

regards Peonie

[patrish]

I do think it would be very helpful if you get one of the childrens actual birth certificates and view the information for yourself, you never know what you may find.

I have been trying to find a marriage of John Hooper to an Ann in Somerset around the time of thier first child but have drawn a blank so far 

The problem with Ann is, it has many deriviations, Anne, Anna, Annie, or Hannah even 

[patrish]

I notice that there is a big gap between Rachel b 1835 and Sarah b. 1843 so perhaps another re marriage. 

There is a death record for an Ann Hooper June q. 1841 Bath  11 - 30 

I cannot find a conclusive baptism record for either Mary or Rachel but think I might have found Sarah on FreeReg 

County.. Somerset
Place.. Beatheston
Church St. Catherines
Reg No. 130
Father John
Mother Anne
Abode St. Catherines
Occupation Baker
File no 6153

Beatheaston came under Bath registration dist from 1837... but Johns occupation is given as a Labourer in 1851 so this may not be right either 

Hooper was such a common name in the area so there could always be more than one couple called John and Ann .

I have found a Sarah Hooper aged 17 on the 61 census not with her family though 

[Peonie]

Thanks again patrish.

All my searches on that side of the family seem to end in nothing. Will eventually get Elizabeth's birth certificate.

Peonie   

[elliebean16]

Hi Peonie

You have found the family in 1851 but there are many more children not shown on that census.  According to Bath's birth registers, there was also John (1832-1837), William (1835-<1841), Richard (1836-1895) and Maria (1841-<1851).  This explains the gaps in the children's ages and puts a question mark over two marriages.  I never have been able to work out who Anne actually was.

The family lived in the Avon Street area of Bath which at the time were the slums, presumably the reason for high infant mortality.  This comes under Walcot & St James parish if you want to check it out.

The youngest, John and Elizabeth, did end up in the poor house and John eventually joined the Navy.

Richard also ended up in the poor house for a period of about 20 years, marked as "imbecile".  Not sure what happened there as he was married with children and seemed to hold down various jobs up until this time so it's possible he had an accident which left him unable to work.  Unfortunately the admission info was destroyed in the war.

I haven't been able to trace what happened to the other children yet and also have a question over who John's father was as there is a match to a wealthy family of Hooper in the city at that time. There is a birth of John in 1811 in the Lansdown area to James & Anne but this could just be a coincidence.  James was a wealthy business man in the Walcot area so the circumstances don't really tie in.

In case you're wondering, Richard was my great, great grandfather and I still live in Bath so have been able to look through the original archives.

[DRH123]

I have been trying to find a marriage of John Hooper to an Ann in Somerset around the time of thier first child but have drawn a blank so far 

John Hooper married Ann Wright at St Catherine's in 1832. They are the parents of the Sarah shown in BathBMD 1843 and baptised at St Catherine's. Not the family from the Avon Street area.  They baptised their Sarah at Holy Trinity in 1844.

http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/SearchResults.pl?RecordType=Baptisms&RecordID=12592703&v=MTM5OTY1NTIxMTpmNzEwYzlkYTYxYzNhZjQ1ZGQxYjUwMDU4OWU4NzEwYzAyYzQyZjM3

The birth doesn't seem to have been registered,  unless she was the one in 1842 on BathBMD with no mother's maiden name - although that usually means that Hooper was the mother's name and no father was mentioned.

David

[Peonie]

Hi elliebean and welcome to rootschat,

thank you for the extra information on Elizabeth.   In 1879 Elizabeth married Fredrick Palmer.  I found 5 children, but only one, Louisa Alice 1884, survived. Elizabeth died in 1887. Fredrick  had another daughter with his second wife, Maria and after that was married  to Mary Ann.  By the 1901 Census they were living in Monmouthshire.

Looks like I am stuck at about 1800 with another line. So far I have not followed any siblings.
You never know one of those days you might find the missing pieces about Richard and also about John.

Elizabeth was my husband’s great grandmother.

Regards Peonie