Found him in a pow camp but nothing else, + fake medals

[Malcolm33]

His number would have been the same in the Argylles as well as the Leicesters as by WW2 numbers were unique to the soldier and retained (unless commissioned).

    What happened with one's service number when transferred from the Army to the RAF?   My good friend in Aden had a service number which was right out of line with either those on National Service or young regulars recently enlisted.   Mac had been in the Army very much earlier than anyone else in our old billet (built by the Turks more than a century before).    He was in India for a while and then after his tour expired he along with a few others were transferred to the RAF.

    One can never forget your own service number as it is drummed into you, mine 4077257, and changing it would be confusing.     Hundreds of other numbers have come and gone but that one is still very much in the forefront of my mind after 60 years.

[Malcolm33]

     Just as a matter of interest Australians who did any National Service - just six months - and never even went overseas, all get a medal.

     I enlisted in the RAF for three years, served two of them in Aden along with a few days in Egypt.  That stay was ten days short for a medal, but they did send me a small badge inscribed 'HM Armed Forces Veteran' along with a certificate.

      They were quite fussy about such things.   While in Aden I bought an Aden Service tie from a local shop who had the franchise to sell them.   But first I had to get a chitty from the adjutant to confirm that I had been in Aden long enough.   Nobody wore ties in Aden, but it was a souvenir for a time until I lost it.     It was a dark navy blue with little small red gambia's all over it.    The RAF service tie is much better known and when wearing it to functions long ago it did open the door to many a good yarn.

[majm]

     Just as a matter of interest Australians who did any National Service - just six months - and never even went overseas, all get a medal.

May I expand please.

National Service in Australia and the medal awarded for those who did “just six months” and “never even went overseas” : that medal is known as the Anniversary of National Service Medal and it is a commerative medal.    ADD : http://www.itsanhonour.gov.au/honours/awards/medals/anniversary_national_service_medal.cfm
http://www.itsanhonour.gov.au/publications/honours/factsheets/Anniversary_of_National_Service_1951-72_Medal.pdf

Here’s the National Archives of Australia’s several fact sheets to help anyone researching Australia’s various National Service schemes post Federation. 

1911-1929  compulsory military training for males between 18 and 60.
 http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/fact-sheets/fs160.aspx

1916-1917 Conscription Referendums failed
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/fact-sheets/fs161.aspx

1939-1945 Compulsory military training of 3 months duration re-introduced for unmarried men turning 21 years.  On 26 Jan 1943,the Defence (Citizen Military Forces) Act provided for the use of Australian conscripts in the South-Western Pacific Zone (SWPZ) during the period of war.
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/fact-sheets/fs162.aspx
 
1951-1969  Compulsory military training of 176 days, males turning 18 ….. Trainees had to stay on the Reserve lists for the Citizen Military Forces for five years.   They could nominate for Army or Navy or Air Force.   If they chose Navy or Air Force, then they needed to volunteer for service outside of Australia.
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/fact-sheets/fs163.aspx

1965-1972 Selective National Service (Ballot/Lottery based on date of birth) 20 year old males, to service in the Army for two years, with three years in the Reserve.   
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/fact-sheets/fs164.aspx

Australian Department of Defence re Medals
http://www.defence.gov.au/medals/

Anniversary of National Service 1951-1972 Medal (ANSM) was not introduced until 2001.  It was for those who served in the two National Service Schemes that Australia had operating between 1951 and 1972.  The ANSM medal is in addition to any earlier awards provided to those men (no females were conscripted).
http://www.defence.gov.au/medals/Content/+047%20ADM%20+%20ANSM/+090%20ANSM/ .

ADD http://www.nashoaustralia.org.au/medals.htm and http://www.nashoaustralia.org.au/history.htm


Cheers,  JM  (Add I am a female, who by virtue of being female was fortunate as I was  therefore not eligible to complete the various forms required to register for that Ballot for National Service. Boys I went to school with, were eligible to complete those forms, and the birthdays for several of those school mates were drawn from the lottery barrel. )

[majm]

An earlier mention about the order of the medals causes me to wonder if there’s actually two sets.   One set up to be worn on the left and the other set up to be worn on the right.   As I understand it, those worn on the left are those awarded to the person wearing them, and those worn on the right are for the next of kin to honour the person awarded those medals when involved in parades for example if  in Australia then when marching in Anzac Day Marches.

So, is it possible that one set is for Ronald Edwin TOWNSEND, and the other for his ancestor?

I mention this also because there’s also some Military records for a Robert Edwin TOWNSEND, of Bristol, England, who served in WWI.

Also, there's a submitted tree which has uploaded the Dec 1944 marriage cert for Robert Edwin TOWNSEND, of Bristol, to Ethel Florence SANDELL. His father given there on that cert as Frederick Townsend (deceased) Fireman.   Robert's dates on that tree 1920-1979,  Ethel's 1922-1972.   

Cheers,  JM

[muzzer1965]

Just posting a photo of POW at Stalag ivc, there could be a chance he is in the image. Fingers crossed.

[muzzer1965]

And an image of the reverse showing names. I am related to Les Knaggs.

[Malcolm33]

An earlier mention about the order of the medals causes me to wonder if there’s actually two sets.   One set up to be worn on the left and the other set up to be worn on the right.   As I understand it, those worn on the left are those awarded to the person wearing them, and those worn on the right are for the next of kin to honour the person awarded those medals when involved in parades for example if  in Australia then when marching in Anzac Day Marches.

  Thank you Majm for your full explanation on Australian medals.   As I understand it one can only wear a medal on the left if it has been awarded to you by a government.    Consequently the Arabian Services Medal that I have for my two years service in Aden can only be worn on the right.   The Awards people in England still checked out my service with the RAF before allowing me to have it.     I would therefore agree that a person wearing a medal on the right can also indicate that they are honouring a relative or ancestor.

[John915]

Good evening,

The two bravery medals both say copy on the back so are probably made of alloy then plated to look like silver.

The stars are made of a yellow copper zinc alloy anyway so are very light. When highly polished they look a bit like plastic, a good bite will tell you.

The Africa star and Italy star should not have the rossettes on the ribbons. These denote the award of a clasp for that medal which is worn only on the ribbon bar when worn with no medals. There were 3 possible clasps for the Africa star but regulations state only one may be awarded to any one person. ie, 1st army, 8th army or north Africa 1942-1943.

The Italy star had no clasps so should not have a rosette at all.

John915

[John915]

Back again,

This link will show what I mean but is not entirely correct. If you scroll down you will see that on the ribbon bar you should have a no 1 or a no 8 or a rosette. The last being for the north Africa 1942-1943 clasp only. But it also shows a ribbon with a 1 and an 8 on it which is incorrect, as it tells you just above when it says only one may be awarded.

Your medals have the 8th army clasp so no rosette would have been issued originally.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa_Star

John915