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Author Topic: What does 'owre' in an Irish gaelic patronomic name mean?  (Read 3264 times)

Offline jc33a

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What does 'owre' in an Irish gaelic patronomic name mean?
« on: Tuesday 26 August 14 14:14 BST (UK) »
I have come across the name 'Donell owre O'Laur' or "Donnell ouer O'Lalur' in some fiants from the 1580s.  What does 'owre' mean? I thought it might be a misspelt 'oge' but the word is repeated in four different fiants. Thoughts?
Cherry, Hertfordshire
Benyon, Shropshire
Hockings, Devonshire
Keaveny, Ireland (Offaly, Galway)
Webb, Gloucstershire (Coaley)
Lawlor, Ireland (Laois)
Russell/Leitch, Ireland (Tyrone/Donegal)
Yore, Ireland (Meath)
Etherington, Yorkshire (East Riding)
Dowling/Dooling, Ireland (Dublin)

Offline 777777

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Re: What does 'owre' in an Irish gaelic patronomic name mean?
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 26 August 14 14:20 BST (UK) »
We don't have a 'w' in Irish, I'd wonder if it's a word borrowed from Ulster Scots, except 1580s is slightly too early for Ulster Scots. It's not a word I've ever come across. Whereabouts in Ireland is the person in question? Do you have a picture of the original document?

Offline eadaoin

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Re: What does 'owre' in an Irish gaelic patronomic name mean?
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 26 August 14 15:33 BST (UK) »
could it be "orse" which is short for "otherwise"? (as in AKA)
I've seen this in Wills fron 1800s 1900s


eadaoin
Begg - Dublin, Limerick, Cardiff
Brady - Dublin
Breslin - Wexford, Dublin
Byrne - Wicklow
O'Hara - Wexford, Kingstown
McLoghlin - Roscommon
Lawlor - Meath, Dublin
Lynam - Meath and Renovo, Pennsylvania
Everard - Meath
Fagan - Dublin
Meyler/Myler - Wicklow
Gray - Derry, Waterford
Kavanagh - Limerick

Offline Sinann

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Re: What does 'owre' in an Irish gaelic patronomic name mean?
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 26 August 14 15:39 BST (UK) »
If you google it there are lots of hits,
Turns up in lists from the 1641 rebellion, I could be wrong but think it eilis could be correct and it's Scottish in origin.

I'd never heard it before either

Fixed the year of the rebellion  :o

Offline trystan

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Re: What does 'owre' in an Irish gaelic patronomic name mean?
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 26 August 14 15:51 BST (UK) »
Sinann

I'm not sure if it helps or not, but some Welsh people used to (and some still do) use the word "ap" between the first and second name - it means the "son/daughter of". So "Eifion ap Llwyd Dafydd" would mean Eifion son of Llwyd Dafydd.

Trystan
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Offline aghadowey

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Re: What does 'owre' in an Irish gaelic patronomic name mean?
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 26 August 14 16:34 BST (UK) »
Ouer is Ulster-Scots for the English word over- which is perhaps okay if these old documents are from the North of Ireland (although 1500s is worryingly early).
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline Sinann

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Re: What does 'owre' in an Irish gaelic patronomic name mean?
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 26 August 14 16:55 BST (UK) »
I've found it as 'our' in Wexford in 1598
"in the yeer of owre lord 1598"
As 'over' in Scotland
"and throw you owre the brig"

But in the context it must mean son of but than  'Donell owre O'Laur' would be Donell son of son of Laur.

Offline TropiConsul

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Re: What does 'owre' in an Irish gaelic patronomic name mean?
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 26 August 14 19:34 BST (UK) »
I don't know whether this helps, but in Scots English "ower" means "too".  My Glaswegian grandmother used to sing "I'm ower young to be gettin' married to you".
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Offline Sinann

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Re: What does 'owre' in an Irish gaelic patronomic name mean?
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 26 August 14 20:05 BST (UK) »
Could it be a phonic spelling of Ua, which was replaced by O
which I got incorrect as most of us do, it means grandson of not son of
but that wouldn't explain why the O is following it.
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