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Messages - ShaCollins24

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1
Shropshire / Re: Job Gurney
« on: Wednesday 22 March 17 12:48 GMT (UK)  »
I know this thread is rather old but I recently found the marriage in the Hertfordshire Parish Registers on find my past for Job Gurney and Mary Dean and it clearly reads Job Gurney and Mary Dean both of this parish married by banns on 12 Oct 1801.

Just in case some other researcher happens by this old thread.

2
Hertfordshire Lookup Requests / Re: Hertfordshire Record Office Look up please?
« on: Thursday 02 March 17 15:52 GMT (UK)  »
Find My Past has Hertfordshire Parish registers. I did a search for William King born 1799 +/- 2 years for the whole of Hertford and it returned 6 results. Year ranging 1797-1801. Places Bishops Strotford, Hexton, Rickmansworth, Thorley, Bovingdon, Sawbridgeworth. since I am not familiar with Hertfordshire area it is unknown to me if any of these places would be near where he stated he was born.

Sharon

3
The Common Room / Re: Am I coming to the right Conclusion?
« on: Sunday 12 February 17 07:52 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: Jomot on Saturday 11 February 17 19:40 GMT (UK)
Possibly adding to the confusion,

Just wondering if it's possible that James & Sarah weren't actually married but she was somehow able to assume his surname whilst he was living 10 miles away with Ann ???

Yes adds to confusion. However, it dawned on me that there is no way of knowing if the widow Sarah Warren was married to James OR if whoever the Mr Warren is/was and Sarah had children. Difficult to say.

On another note. I went back and had a look at George and Sarah's Marriage record. It states the Banns were published the 7th, 14th and 21st August 1791. Marriage took place on 5th January 1792. Richard was baptised on 14 August 1791. John Haggard, Rector appears on both documents.

I am fairly certain that I am correct in thinking that the Richard Warren baptised on that day is in fact the son of George Collings. Proving my theory is another matter. Just need to make the decision on rather or not I put them as his parents and make a note of my research and my conclusion.

4
The Common Room / Re: Am I coming to the right Conclusion?
« on: Saturday 11 February 17 15:47 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: philipsearching on Saturday 11 February 17 15:18 GMT (UK)
Did George Collings leave a will?  If so, this could give some information.

Instinct says that a Mr Collings was the biological father of Thomas and that, as Sarah later married George, the fathjer of Thomas was George Collings.  However, with the information you have so far, this is 'highly probable' but not definite.

Were there other Collings men having children baptised around the same time?

All the best
Philip

I have not been able to locate any will or other death information other than the burial for George. There were 3 other Collings men having children in Benington in the 1790s. There was one Collins in Walkern in the 1790s. I am and have been working on putting families of these two areas together. A huge undertaking with continue use of the same given names. Also, Collings and Collins go from one record to another and one time period to another. It appears in Benington that Collings was used until 1813ish then it changed to Collins. Some census though have Collings not Collins and vice versa. Such a puzzle to work through.

5
The Common Room / Re: Am I coming to the right Conclusion?
« on: Saturday 11 February 17 15:34 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: trish1120 on Saturday 11 February 17 13:44 GMT (UK)
This appears to be Georges 3 Marriages;

25 Oct 1778, St Mary the Virgin, Walkern, George COLLINS of Bennington to Jane LOWEN
5 Jan 1792, St Peter, Bennington, George COLLINGS to Sarah WARREN (Widr/Widow)
20 Oct 1796, St Peter, Bennington, George CALLINGS (Widr) to Priscilla BRETT
(FreeREG)

This is correct.

6
The Common Room / Re: Am I coming to the right Conclusion?
« on: Saturday 11 February 17 15:34 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: Nick_Ips on Saturday 11 February 17 13:21 GMT (UK)
I've done some research on a COLLINS family from the Harlow area - one of the hardest surnames I've dealt with in terms of variations of spelling and how common the name is. I can sympathise with you!

Bear in mind the information you're looking for might be there, but with a spelling variation which isn't included in your searches.

I also find the absence of a piece of information (e.g. father's name on a baptism) one of the hardest things to get round. Your theory that Richard Warren is the same person as Richard Collins doesn't seem unreasonable, but proving it is a different matter. Disproving it is easier, if the Richard Warren appears on the 1841 census or elsewhere then you probably have two different people - but again, the absence of a record for somebody is not proof that they didn't exist!

I have tried finding further information on Richard Warren baptised in 1790 I come up with nothing that fits or matches what I know. Does that mean I have disproved Richard Warren existed? Not to sure on that one.

7
The Common Room / Re: Am I coming to the right Conclusion?
« on: Saturday 11 February 17 15:31 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: josey on Saturday 11 February 17 13:14 GMT (UK)
Some info about Bastardy Bonds
https://www.genguide.co.uk/source/bastardy-bonds-amp-documents-parish-amp-poor-law/140/
but if George married Sarah shortly after Richard's birth I don't think she would have applied for one.

I think a widow's name on marriage documents would be that of her late husband.

ADDED: My understanding is that all names in the first column of a baptism record are forenames, the surname is taken from the [usually male] parent's entry. Familysearch has it transcribed thus
Name   Thos. Collings Warren
Gender   Male
Christening Date   28 Mar 1790
Christening Place   BENINGTON,HERTFORD,ENGLAND
Mother's Name   Sarah Warren
Indexing Project (Batch) Number   C07216-1
GS Film number   991329, 991365

I can view the actual register on Find my Past it is as I mentioned above: Thos Collings natural born son of Sarah Warren then the date. There are no columns just a written line.
Thank you for the information about the bastardly bonds.

8
The Common Room / Re: Am I coming to the right Conclusion?
« on: Saturday 11 February 17 13:09 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: josey on Saturday 11 February 17 12:33 GMT (UK)
You can never be entirely sure ;D though it is looking that way.

Have you looked for Sarah's earlier marriage to Mr Warren & so find when Mr Warren died? She may not have been free to marry until he died which is presumably between Aug 1791 [Richard's baptism] & Jan 1792 [marriage to George].  Why Thomas was baptised Collings in 1790 is strange; are you sure he isn't Thomas Collings Warren? This would be a common way for indicating paternity. Not sure when they were current but have you looked for bastardy bonds?

Thanks for you reply. The full baptism record for Thomas states... Thomas Collings natural born son of Sarah Warren (it actually uses the shortened Thos. for Thomas. I have tried to locate Mr Warren. In actual fact I have done the baptism search with last name of Warren and Mother name of Sarah I get two other hits and they list a father of James Warren and Mother name Sarah. John (1774) and Joseph (1780). Other results are for children in the mid 1800s. Searching for a James Warren I can find a James Warren burial 1770 but that can't be right due to the dates of the two sons.
I failed to mention that the marriage between Sarah and George in 1792 is Georges second marriage. His first wife died in 1789. Sarah died in 1795 same year as her daughter Sarah who was born in 1794 and the child of George.
I am also left to wonder was Sarah Warren, widow that is on the marriage record to George her maiden name or her married name?


I did not know of Bastardy Bonds or even what they are but shall see what I can find.

9
The Common Room / Am I coming to the right Conclusion?
« on: Saturday 11 February 17 11:57 GMT (UK)  »
I had posted this in the Hertfordshire part of this forum but would like a others opinion. I am still Not quite sure if this is the correct place for this I am hoping someone can help me on rather or not my conclusion is correct.
Researching my husbands family trying to discover his gr gr grandfathers parents. I have the following information:
Name: Richard Collins
Birth: about 1794 in Hertfordshire, according to 1841 census, age at death on death certificate and burial age this is about the year he was born.
Marriage: 1819, Benington, Hertfordshire to Jemima Edwards
Death: 17 November 1841, Bengeo, Hertfordshire, accident age 47. Residence on Death Cert. is Benington, Hertfordshire.
Burial: 23 November 1841, Benington, Hertfordshire age 47
Residence in 1841: Benington, Hertfordshire

When I search for a Richard Collins or even Collings in Benington and Walkern Hertfordshire for 1794 +/- 5 years I return 0 results. I have also tried same search for entire Hertfordshire again 0 results.

I had a theory the other day so just searched Richard, 1794 +/- 5 years in Benington and Walkern. I get 6 results. 5 of these Richards has two parents listed. 1 had only a mother, Sarah. Name of Child Richard Warren Baptised 14 August 1791 in Benington. Mother obviously being Sarah Warren. Now I know for fact that a Sarah Warren, Widow married George Collin(g)s in January 1792 in Benington. I also know that there was another son baptised with the mother listed Sarah Warren, no father but the child's full name given as Thomas Collings, baptised 26 March 1790.

Now my theory is that George Collings had fathered these two sons. My problem is I am not sure if my conclusion is correct and would like others input on this as I really have no one to discuss this with. Any input, suggestions or even a reason to dismiss my conclusion will be helpful to me.

Thanks!
Sharon

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