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Topics - ndmhine

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Devon / Dunkeswell records before 1750
« on: Friday 23 March 18 15:16 GMT (UK)  »
Hi,

I wonder if anyone has any insight into why the baptism records for Dunkeswell in Devon, anywhere I can find them (notably findmypast), start at 1750? It appears to have been a substantial parish considerably before that and many nearby parishes (eg Hemyock) have records going back a great deal further.

Does anyone know if any of the following are the case?
 a) Dunkeswell was doing baptisms long before this but the records are simply lost forever?
 b) Dunkeswell was doing baptisms long before this, and the records still exist but have never been transcribed?
 c) People who lived in Dunkeswell had their children baptised elsewhere until 1750?

There is some evidence of (c) in at least one family (Gill) who had children baptised in Hemyock until the start of the first register book in 1750.

This question impacts my attempts to follow a number of my lines back beyond around this date, such as William Burrough (born c1747 in Dunkeswell: many online trees assert his parents to be James Burrough and Elizabeth Rosewell. I believe them to have been Richard Burrough and Elizabeth Denner, but I can find no corresponding baptism. There are many similar puzzles as a substantial branch of my family tree comes from this approximate area.

There doesn't seem to be an OPC for Dunkeswell but I thought I'd see if anyone has any insights.

Thanks

2
Wiltshire / Are James Penn of Highworth Wilts and James Penn of Beaconsfield Bucks the same?
« on: Sunday 16 October 16 23:29 BST (UK)  »
From the subject line this may may not sound likely, as they are 45 miles apart, but I have a certain amount of circumstantial evidence that a James Penn (my wife's great x5 grandfather) who married, had four children in Highworth and then disappeared is the same person who has four more children in Beaconsfield then disappears again, reappearing in Highworth.

It has become a lot clearer recently with the new ancestry Oxfordshire records. However, I'm wondering if anyone can find a smoking gun of solid evidence as it is an intriguing mystery that I have dedicated a lot of time to but cannot solve.

My entry point is Robert Moore marrying Ann Penn in Highway, Wiltshire (not Highworth!), 14 Oct 1830. Ann puts her birthplace on future census returns as either Holloway's Farm, Bucks or Beaconsfield, Bucks, (like many Victorian women she seems to get older rather more slowly than time passes: DOBs between 1810 and 1820 depending on which census!). There was a Holloway's Farm in Beaconsfield at this time. There is a baptism record for her in 1809 to James Penn and "Mary Trueman" in Beaconsfield in 1809, along with siblings Margaret (1803), Harriet (1805) and George (1806).

Margaret also gets married in Highway, Wiltshire (to John Bradfield in 1824) and puts down Beaconsfield as POB on later census returns.
Harriet gets married in North Hinksey, Berkshire, (to John Kilbee in 1828) and likewise puts Beaconsfield.
George gets married in St Clements, Oxford in (to Martha Townsend in 1826) and likewise puts down Beaconsfield.

There is no other evidence of a James Penn in Buckinghamshire at this time so I looked to see if he could be found in Wiltshire. Intriguingly a good match pops up (who many people have researched before). Born to Daniel Penn and Elizabeth in 1770, he marries Mary Drew in 1794 (confusingly she seems to have gone by the names Mary and Elizabeth - it is different in Banns and Register but I think there is just one marriage), then has children Jane (1795), Sarah (1796), Elizabeth (1798) and Daniel (1800), all with wife "Elizabeth". Then he disappears for 11 years. This gap exactly coincides with the time in Beaconsfield. Then he reappears having Joseph in 1811 (this time with "Mary").

Mary dies in 1821 (at Westrop, Highworth), and John remarries (to a widow, Hannah Trowbridge) and has another daughter (Prudence, who later marries in London).

The circumstantial evidence for these being the same James Penn is too extensive to detail in full, quite strong but based mostly on the names of children (very much overlapping between both sets of Penn children), and locations of marriages of the Highworth children overlapping with the Beaconsfield ones. For example, Daniel marries in South Hinksey, Berkshire, right near Harriet, then lives in Oxford, to which she also moves. Elizabeth marries in Broad Hinton, Wiltshire, next door to Highway. There is lots more but nothing that is really proof.

The one clue to his occupation is that long after he is dead, daughter prudence lists him as a "Butcher" when getting married. I can't think why a butcher would relocate to a town 45 miles away for 10 years then come back.

James Penn himself dies in 1828 (also at Westrop, Highworth), but sadly does not appear to have left a will or a monumental inscription.

The incomplete nature of the Wiltshire records available online for 1760-1780 means I can't rule out the possibility that there were two James Penns, or even that there was one born in Buckinghamshire. However, my gut instinct is that they are the same person - I would love to have some proof (or even stronger hints!). Give me a shout if you can think of any way of investigating further (also I can share the ancestry tree which has all this saved).

3
Dorset Lookup Requests / Sophia KAY or KAYE, Blandford, Dorset, born around 1751
« on: Friday 08 July 16 13:31 BST (UK)  »
I'm wondering if anyone can suggest any further avenues of research after I have exhausted all the ways I can think of to further trace my wife's ancestor Sophia KAY / KAYE

She makes quite an impression on the historical record later in life, but I cannot find her origins documented anywhere. She marries James Forster Knight (~1751-1808) in 1777 at Langton Long Blandford, Dorset (mistranscribed as Sophia HAY in some records). They have at least 5 children including John Baverstock Knight (1785-1859) who was a sufficiently famous artist to have an entry in the Dictionary of National Biography, stating:

"Knight, John Baverstock (1785–1859), land surveyor and painter, was born on 3 May 1785 at the rectory, Langton Long Blandford, Dorset, the third of eight children of James Forster Knight (1751–1808), captain, 3rd Dorset militia, and his wife, Sophia (1751/2–1820), daughter of Colonel John Kay. His parents lived at the Down House, Blandford St Mary, which Knight had inherited with Littleton and Langton manors. John was baptized at Langton rectory, home of his aunt (wife of the rector, Dr J. H. Ridout), on 28 May 1786. Knight was educated privately at home, then at Mr Longman's Commercial School at Child Okeford. "

Furthermore, in the baptism for John Baverstock Knight it lists parents as "James Knight and Sophia his wife, formerly Kaye" (http://www.opcdorset.org/WinterborneFiles/W.Whitchurch/WWhitechurchBaps2.htm)

In an announcement of the marriage to James Knight she is listed as "Miss Kaye, of Blandford"

When she dies in 1820 she is given an age indicating birth in 1751/2.

You might think that was plenty to go on to help find baptism and parents of Sophia, but I have drawn a complete blank. No records of her anywhere. Nor can I find anything about any Colonel John Kay. Perhaps he was a Colonel of the Dorset Militia, like James Forster Knight?

John Honyfield Ridout is well documented, and marries Jane Knight (John Baverstock Knight's sister) in 1828, but that cannot be the marriage they talk about when saying he was baptised at his aunt's home. However, there is no record I can find of J H Ridout marrying anyone previously. Unclear if the aunt is a sister of his mother or his father.

The Kay family clearly lived in Blandford at one point, and were well-off, but Sophia may not have been born there. It is all a bit of a puzzle, and I would appreciate any thoughts from experts on Dorset family history on what trace there might be of them?

4
Oxfordshire Completed Look Up Requests / Sarah BATTEN, born around 1771, perhaps in Tetsworth / Thame?
« on: Thursday 23 June 16 18:24 BST (UK)  »
I am looking for some trace of the origins of Sarah BATTEN, who appears to be my wife's ancestor. She married Sparks PHILP on 10 Feb 1803 at St Dunstan's, Stepney. I cannot find a corresponding baptism anywhere nearby at any time that would make her an appropriate age. She appears as Sarah PHILP, with Sparks PHILP, in the 1841 census, aged 70, hence born around 1771, but then dies in 1845 so does not appear on the 1851 census that would otherwise have shown her place of birth.

Looking for traces by the same surname, I find a Martha BATTEN marrying John Froggitt in 1809 at St Dunstan's. Perhaps she is a sister, or other relative, of Sarah? Martha and John Froggitt are still around in 1851, and she puts her place of birth as Tetsworth, Oxfordshire.

I am therefore wondering if anyone could check the baptisms in the Tetsworth / Thame area and see if there is any family in the 1760s-1780s by the name of BATTEN who have daughters named Sarah and Martha (and who might have later ended up in London).

It is a bit of a long shot, but judging by the number of instances of her in ancestry trees Sarah Batten appears to be a lot of people's ancestor and no one has worked out where she came from. Would be great to get some sort of lead.

5
Somerset Lookup Requests / Rachel MEAD - Ilton Somerset, possible mistranscription
« on: Tuesday 31 May 16 11:22 BST (UK)  »
Hi All,

I'm wondering if anyone has access to the original images for the Ilton, Somerset parish records of the 1770s?

The reason is that I have an ancestor who I can trace quite well from marriage onwards but for whom I have no baptism record: Rachel Mead marries William Bond, 12 April 1796, has children with him including Letitia Adela Bond (1797) and William Mead Bond (1805). The husband William Bond dies in 1810 and Rachel marries Samuel Farrant in 1815, then Rachel dies in 1837 aged 66. This indicates birth in 1771. I would imagine in Ilton, Somerset, as that is where the marriage was, but at least probably nearby.

The transcriptions of the Ilton parish records do not have a Rachel Mead born at the right time. There is in freereg, however, a listing for a baptism of a

Rachel IETT, 14 Apr 1771, to John and Shuannah (Susannah?) IETT.

Now, IETT is of course not a real name so one presumes the transcriber has failed to read it properly.

Does anyone have access to the originals which could confirm if it is possible that in fact it might have said MEAD? The date, first name and length of word line up, so I am inclined to believe it could be her.

Many thanks in advance if anyone can help

6
Somerset Completed Lookup Requests / Elizabeth TOMS baptism Combe St Nicholas c. 1791
« on: Wednesday 09 December 15 16:36 GMT (UK)  »
Elizabeth TOMS baptism Combe St Nicholas c. 1791

Hi,

I am looking for a baptism record, and any closely-related records, for my ancestor Elizabeth Toms. She married John Meech in Sydling St Nicholas, Dorset in 1811. On census returns she consistently puts her birthplace as Combe St Nicholas, Somerset, and ages indicating birth circa 1791.

I am unable to find anywhere online where I can access baptisms for Combe St Nicholas. If anyone has access, I would be hugely grateful to know anything there is available about her, her parents or her siblings.

Many thanks indeed

Nick

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