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Messages - Aceh

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Quaker Family History / Austell family of Quakers
« on: Tuesday 09 May 17 16:57 BST (UK)  »
I descend from William Austell Jnr, who it is suggested, "died a prisoner for the truth" on 12 December 1692. I also have his marriage date but nothing of his date of birth, which I believe was in the village of Oare, near Pusey, in Wiltshire. It is believed that his father William Austell Snr, also of Oare, was married to a Dorothy, whose birth family is unknown. I have found no details of births, or marriage for this couple, but they are recorded to have died within days of each other in 1679. It is further suggested that Dorothy and her son William Austell Jnr were the first of the Austell family to join the Society of Friends; whether William Snr also became a member is unknown.
I am hoping to trace this family back in time into the 16th century, beyond its association with the Quaker movement, so if anyone out there is also researching this family or can offer further information, I should be very gratefull to learn of it. 

Devon / Re: Unitarian Mint Meeting of Exeter - George Osborn b 17-1-1790
« on: Thursday 04 May 17 17:29 BST (UK)  »
Thanks Ciderdrinker for your swift reply.

So, we can show that Exeter George born 1784 was buried at Exeter as i presumed but this leaves Exeter George born 1790. My 3 x great grandfather George married for the first time At St Antholin, Budge Row, City of London on 22 January 1812; ie some 22 years later. That's around 6 years later than the birth date of 1784 as per my George's death certificate and suggested by Family Search, but still possible.The question is did Exeter George of the Unitarian Mint Meeting survive to marry locally in or around Exeter (Anglcan wedding of course - only Quakers and Jews were excused at that time) or did he migrate to London? And you beleve the George in the 1821 marriage in Exeter was not born there in 1790. So Exeter Unitarian George 1790 would have been free to go to London, but the connection is really a gut feeling on my part due to similarities between Quakerism and Unitarianism with very little hard evidence.

Oh; if only my George could have hung on until the 1851 census!

Devon / Unitarian Mint Meeting of Exeter - George Osborn b 17-1-1790
« on: Monday 01 May 17 17:21 BST (UK)  »
My 3 x great grandfather George Osborn was described in the 1841 census for Shoreditch in London as being born outside of the County of Middlesex. He inconveniently died before the 1851 census so we have the whole country to search apart from Middlesex. But there are some clues:
1. He married a Quaker lass who was hence expelled for marrying out, so he was not a Quaker.
2. His decendents for a couple of generations were non-conformists, but of unknown ilk.
3. We have a letter from a now deceased relative who tells us that her mother told her that the 2 daughters of George's son James used to wear Quaker style dress and went about doing good works - this may of course been due to the influence of grandmother.
4. George's death certificate puts his birth around 1784.
5. There was a George Osborn, born to George & Sarah Osborn of the Mint Meeting in Exeter, who was born in 1784 according to Family Search.

Have I struck lucky? I have found that in fact Exeter George born 1784 was swiftly followed by Exeter George born 1790, so presumeably the earlier George had died. But I have been unable to find burials for either. If they were indeed buried in Exeter or there abouts, neither could have been my 3 x great grandfather, end of story as far as Devon is concerned.

Is anyone researching Osborns or the Mint Meeting in Exeter, who can shine any light; even the dimest would be useful.

Many thanks in anticipation

The Common Room / Re: Toni*ís OH Sc Hunt part 9
« on: Wednesday 08 March 17 22:57 GMT (UK)  »
Evening Toni,

Annie Gardner Cole was the daughter of Richard Cole and his first wife Ann Gardner. Richard and Ann were married on 21 February 1805 at Radway, Warwickshire.

The Common Room / Re: Toni*ís OH Sc Hunt part 9
« on: Thursday 08 December 16 22:52 GMT (UK)  »
More Annie Susan conundrums:

In the 1861 census, (RG9/244, f 2, p? Ė page corner torn off), Annie Susan was living at 59, Huntingdon Street, Shoreditch, with her children Georgette and Alfred James. It appears from the same census (RG9/586, f 23, p4) that her husband Alfred Urwin was being detained at Lewes Prison in Sussex, although the prisoner was described as a Tailor, not a Shoemaker.

On 11/5/1866 at St Barnabas, Finsbury, 3 baptisms took place on the same day. The parents are recorded as being Alfred Urwin and Annie Susan Urwin. The children were Alfred James born Q2 1860; Rosina Sarah born Q1 1862 as above, and Elizabeth Selina. However it seems, no Annie Susan  jr.- had she died or, perversly, had her name changed to Elizabeth Selina?
FreeBMD shows a total of 12 Elizabeth Urwins being born between 1862 and the date of this baptism; all of these births were in the North East of England, none of the children had a second forename of Selina, so the birth & parentage of this child is uncertain.

On 10 May 1869 at St James, Clerkenwell, Alfred Irwin (sic) widower married Sarah Skidmore nee Hudson, widow, born Shoreditch. The witnesses were Alfred Cullmer and Sarah Whitehead, ie Annie Susanís brother and their elder brother George Isaacís deserted wife; both signifying their acceptance of the marriage. Hence, it appears that Annie Susan had died sometime between the birth of Annie Susan jnr in 1862 and this marriage in 1869. Her husband Alfred Urwin appears himself to have died in 1886, having sired a further two children by his second wife, Sarah.

FreeBMD further records the death of a Susan Irwin (sic) in the district of St Marylebone during Q1 1862. This is the only death of an Annie or Susan Urwin / Irwin in the London area during this period apart from a woman who was much older. However, how can this be as her daughter Annie Susan Jr was not born until Q3 1862. From FreeBMD, the death for an Annie Urwin in Q4 1865 at Gateshead 10a 380 is the only other one recorded in the timescale, however this was found to relate to a 3 year old child.

What was going on?

The Common Room / Re: Toni*ís OH Sc Hunt part 9
« on: Wednesday 07 December 16 22:51 GMT (UK)  »
Georgetta is on the census as sister in law to Isaac William Osborne - he married Rosina Culmer daughter of Alfred Culmer & Ellen Wheeler not Rosina Urwin daughter of Alfred Urwin and Annie Susan Culmer

I believe that Georgette is the initially illegitimate daughter of Annie Susan the sister of Alfred. When Annie Susan married Alfred Urwin the child may have been legitimised, she may even have been the child of Alfred Urwin. So she is not a sister of Rosina Culmer but a niece. Census enumerators getting the wrong end of the stick is not unknown. And Rosina Cullmer was the legitemate child of Alfred and his lawful wife Mary nee Hale.

The Common Room / Re: Toni*ís OH Sc Hunt part 9
« on: Wednesday 07 December 16 22:19 GMT (UK)  »
Alfred Cullmer
We do not have a baptism for him. His grandfather, the father of Edward Cullmer 1810 - 1849, was William Culmer 1756 - 1816 a mariner of Dover, It is therefore possible that he was known within the Cullmer family as Alfred William or William Alfred.

Other Culmers
There is a line of the greater Culmer family which descend from Holtum Culmer 1756 - post 1794 a gentleman of Kent. Most of this branch of the family moved to London as Brushmakers and ultimately by late Victorian times as Brush Manufacturers. By the times we are talking about there would have been dozens of these families, so some of the people you are chasing may well be them. As far as I know, they used the original single L version of the name. I believe they were based mainly in north and north east London.

The Common Room / Re: Toni*ís OH Sc Hunt part 9
« on: Wednesday 07 December 16 18:32 GMT (UK)  »
Not sure if this will get us anywhere:
Edward Culmmer dies 1849 in the taproom of the Bull & Mouth.
1851 census has his widow Annie Gardner Cullmer nee Cole with daughter Annie Susan and Lucy Cole, sister of Annie, all "needlewoman" in the Rookery that was Bartholomew Close in the City off Aldersgate Street.
1852 - 4 May Annie Gardner Cullmer nee Cole died in Lower Street, Deal Kent. Why she was then living in Kent is unknown - possibly to be close to Cullmer relatives? but she was born in Warwickshire!
1861 census - Mary Colmer not found; neither was her marriage or death. Lucy Cole is a servant in Aston Warwickshire. Alfred sent down at the Bailey for "abducting" Emily Blackshaw - Mary Cullmer nee Hale exits stage left with the legit kids.
1862 - Annie Susan's last known child registerd in Q1 Finsbury. But Annie Susan a bolt hole for Mary Colmer + child by then around 9 years old? But possibly is the child Georgette???

or  could Mary Colmer (possibly with infant) be with her mother or other Culmer relation in Deal or east Kent generally around 1851 and remain there?
or could she be in Warwickshire with her unmarried Aunt Lucy Cole around 1861?

Sorry- straws in the wind and potentially nonsence. We do not know how close the Culmer siblings and their spouses were to each other in this period before the fire business started.

Over to you - I'm off to have a bite to eat! 

The Common Room / Re: Toni*ís OH Sc Hunt part 9
« on: Wednesday 07 December 16 15:04 GMT (UK)  »
Ah, Spidermonkey, so you are thinking that Rosina born 1852 may be the illigitimate daughter of Mary Colmer the Housemaid presumed elder sister of George Isaac, Annie Susan and Alfred. Um, but if this was the case then Mary would have been out on her ear from the posh house in Marylebone pdq and probably minus a reference. This would not be entirely unknown and possibly explain why I wasn't able to find a marriage for her when I was looking some years ago. In many cases low stutus domestic servants were not allowed to marry if they wished to continue employment by the posh family. Many a servant in a delicate condition ended up in the workhouse. I'm intrigued by all these Culmers naming daughters Rosina as I know of no precedence for the name in the Culmer family.
Another alternative mother may have been Sarah, the wife of George Isaac Culmer, but the child would have to have died in infancy and a 2nd child then being named Rosina in 1854. Any appropriate infancy deaths out there?

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