look-up request Dunfermline

[boop]

Is it possible that anyone could do a look-up for me at Dunfermline Library. I am trying to find out if my great-grandfather John Ferguson or my great-grandmother Ann Ferguson ever claimed poor relief. He died in 1917 and I think he moved to the Dunfermline/Inverkeithing area about 1906? from Oban. She died in 1930 and was living at Backmarch Road Rosyth I know that when he died in 1917 he was living at Burnside Inverkeithing. Any help or advice would be welcomed as I cannot find out anything about him between 1906 and 1917 and I don't know what records I could access to gain any information. Does anyone know what undertakers were in this area at this time and would death notices in the paper have been a common thing for everyone.

[trishmac]

Hello Boop, I could go into the library for you - or you can phone them on 01383 312600 and ask for the Local History section to ask what records are available. They are very helpful re. resources but I could look up anything which would take time.
If your Ferguson's were so hard up you think they might have received Poor Relief, it seems unlikely they would have afforded a notice in the paper, but I know the library has back copies of the Dunfermline Press (local paper) on microfilm. Do you only have the years of death or can you be more precise? As I said on another thread, I believe that information on burial lairs for the area from 1867 is available from the Cemeteries dept. tel: 01383 724653. So even if they could not have afforded a headstone, there might be a record of them there. Or if you're not in the UK I could do the phoning for you.
Let me know what you'd like me to do.
Trish

[boop]

Hi Trish

Thanks for your reply. Its quite a long and complicated story about my Fergusons (isn't it always) I did phone the Dunfermline Library about death notices and poor relief records and they said they had back issues of some newspapers and also poor relief records but I would have to go in person to look them up and as I am partially housebound at the moment and can only go short distances (I am in Clydebank) its not possible at the moment.
I have already been in touch with the Cremarorium about lair records and I know what lairs my great grandparents are in there lies the problem. My great-grandfather John Ferguson died on 16th July 1918 at Burnside in Inverkeithing aged 63 and he was buried in Inverkeithing cemetary South Section row 13 no.228 and it was a Mr Ferguson ( I think this was my grandfather) who is registered as the owner of the lair. My great-grandmother Ann Sinclair Ferguson died on the second of December 1930 at 81 Backmarch Road Rosyth, Dunfermline aged 77 and she was buried in Inverkeithing Cemetary in South Division Row 16 no 228. I thought it was just maybe a clerical error why they wern't buried together but the cemetary says there is no way of finding this out, they say south division and south section are opposite ends of the graveyard and the funny thing is there was a wealthy mill owner named Thomson who purchased two lairs for himself and his wife and two daughters to be buried in and Ann Ferguson is buried in between the two daughters. I can find no connection with Ann Sinclair and the Thomson family so don't know why she would be buried in with them. As far as I know they should have been buried together. The crematorium say the lair that John Ferguson is in has never been opened since he was buried there in 1918 so there would have been room for Ann there. I have contacted the Co-Op funeral service to see if they have any records for then and am waiting for word back. My other mystery is I cannot find any record of John Fergusons birth (he came from Argyll) or any death records for his parents so I thought if he had claimed poor relief then there might have been some information about his parents. As far as I know there are no stones marking the grave of John Ferguson. As you see it is a mystery, I wouldn't like to think that John and Ann had wished to be buried together and because of a mistake they are buried at opposite ends of the graveyard.
I would be glad to hear your views as sometimes it helps to hear someone elses opinion or suggestions.

Best wishes
Boop

[trishmac]

Hi Boop
I've been to the library and looked in the Dunfermline Press but didn't see any death notices. I'll need to go back and consult the Poor Relief records. The problem is I work and by the time I get home and feed the family the library is shut. (Shuts at 7pm) So mostly I go at w/ends.
I had a look in Inverkeithing Cemetery as well. I found the Thomson family (if they were John Thomson who died at Scotts Mill, his wife and two daughters) but no sign of Ann Ferguson. Similarly, I couldn't find a stone for John, tho' I'm fairly sure I was looking in the correct row, as they were numbered. Quite a few of the headstones were broken - at first I thought due to subsidence, but then it dawned on me it was probably vandalism.
I guess if they were quite hard up they wouldn't have afforded a stone.
I'll let you know about the Poor relief records at the w/end.
Trish

[boop]

Thank you so much for looking please don't go to any bother although I appreciate your help. Yes that was the correct Thomson but this is where the mystery is. I know her name is not mentioned on the stone but the crematorium definitely say that she is buried in that lair in between the two daughters. I am trying to find out if maybe it was a clerical eror and she was buried in with John but the crematorium said that the lair he is in has never been opened since his burial in 1918. As I said before when you discuss it with someone else sometimes things come to mind and it was when writing this to you a thought occured to me, I wonder if I should try the crematorium again and ask how many times the lair where the Thomson daughters are has been opened, if its only been opened twice it means Ann isn't in there at all. Thanks again for taking an interest.
Boop

[trishmac]

Hello again Boop
No joy on the Poor relief records. The librarian said there had been quite a few lost in a fire some time ago.
I did also find a Rosyth Newspaper 'The Rosyth and Forth Mail', which covered the time of Ann's death (but not Johns) but there was no death notice.
The librarian managed to help me find Scott's mill where John Thomson died, at Hillend, a mile or two east of Rosyth. It was a corn mill. In the Directory of Fife traders for 1896 John was listed as a corn miller. They couldn't have been related in any way to the Fergusons could they?
Sorry to have so little info for you
Trish
PS If John Ferguson was 63 when he died in 1918, did he have an 1855 birth cert?

[boop]

Hi Trish

Thank you so much for looking up those things for me, I think my Fergusons will have to stay a mystery as I have run out of ideas. I have searched for a birth certificate for John Ferguson on Scotlands People (I spent a small fortune) and found no certificate I also paid a researcher to look at the records in Edinburgh for him or his parents and she couldn't find anything and even the people who work in the records office searched and found nothing. I can't go any further with my Ferguson until I find out more about John, on the previous census returns he has his birthplace down as Kilmorich but I have enquired there and nothing. I telephoned the Crematorium again on Friday about the lair records concerning Ann and she is definitely (they say) buried in with the Thomson sisters but I know of no relationship she had with that family. I still think there has been a mistake somewhere whether with the burial or a clerical error. I also got in touch with the Co-Op funeral office in Dunfermline but their records only go back to 1937.

Thanks again for your help I really do appreciate it.

Boop

[MonicaL]

Hi Boop

Having read through the posts with Trish, I understand what problems you are having regarding John and Ann's burial details. Also that you are trying to find out what was happening in the years leading up to his death.

You do say that you are stuck going back with your Fergusons. What info do you have to date?

- Have you got details of John's (and Ann's) parents from their marriage and death certs.

- Have you managed to find them on early (post 1861) censuses?

- Have you tried finding John and Ann's parents' death certs?

If John was born in 1854 (rather than 1855), it may be that you will not find a birth entry for him (birth never registered/ OPRs lost or destroyed/ family didn't belong to the established Church of Scotland etc.). I can see 3 birth entries coming up on SP in Fife for 1855 for Johns, I assume you have already used your many credits viewing these! This is where the census info becomes invaluable. It will also help you find details of John and Ann's siblings etc.

Just some ideas which I'm sure you are already fighting with! If you post some more info here such as parents' details and any census info, I'm sure people here would help to try and get you back a little bit more.

Regards.

Monica

[boop]

Hi Monica thanks for taking an interest in my problem with my Fergusons. Ann Sinclair Ferguson wife of John is no problem to research I have got back to 1750 with her fathers side but can find absolutely nothing on John Fergusons side, this is some of what I have. My grandfather was James Ferguson born 1884 in Soroba Road Oban, Argyll his parents were Ann Ferguson maiden name Sinclair and John Ferguson. At the time of John and Ann's marriage in 1884 in Oban John's usual residence is Ballygowan by Oban and his parents are John Ferguson (ploughman) deceased and Isabella Ferguson maiden name McCallum but there is no deceased after her name. John has his age down as 28. I can find John and Ann and family on all future census records and John has his birthplace down as Kilmorich but I have made enquiries and there is no record of a John Ferguson birth. On the 1881 census before his marriage he was working on a farm in Glenorchy called Castle House where he was working as a ploughman and his age is 23. In the 1891 census he is in Glenorchy and Innishail (I think to do with building the railway) and is aged 35 and he is on the 1901 census in Muchairn working at the Bonawe Quarry and is aged 45. There seems to be a differing range in his age. I think he moved to Rosyth or Dunfermline after 1907 and that is when I can find nothing more except that he lived for a time in Couston Street and then he died in 1918 at Burnside Inverkeithing. I can find no birth record for him and I can find no death records for possible parents either it has become quite a mystery along with the burial of Ann Ferguson. I can find no connection to the people she is buried with yet the lair her husband is in has only himself in it. Any advice or tips on what to try next would be most welcome. Does anyone know if there would be any kind of records kept then that would give personal information about him.

Boop