Searching for Hilden

[jax]

hi everybody

I'm looking for my maternal g grandmother.  Her name was Thrisa/Thriza Hilden and she is rumoured to be romany gypsy.

However, I have been unable to find birth, marriage or death information on her.  Although she is mentioned in a book called 'Thanet at War' and also mentioned on her husband (John Twyman) honours on the CWGC site (civilian death). (they lived in Ramsgate, Kent for a long while)

So I have no idea where she was born or when - but I do know she existed.. 

Is Hilden a common gypsy name?  Certainly Thriza is, isnt it?

She is my longest brickwall and one I would dearly love to break down..

thank you for any help in advance..

[bearkat]

What sort of dates are you looking for her birth, marriage and death?
Is she around for any of the census?

[CatOne]

From the cwgc website John was 65 when he died in 1943, so presumable Thirza was around the same age? ie, yob c1878

Birth of one of their children?
John Twyman September 1911 Canterbury Vol 2a Page 1807 Mothers maiden name - Hilden

[bearkat]

I think HILDEN is a traveller surname but there seem to be very few of the around on the census.
There aren't many Thirzas around either.
There is a Thirza HALL living in Ramsgate aged 15 in 1891, father Boatman (barge).

[casalguidi]

Hi Jax

There certainly were/are HILDEN travellers in Kent but some of them may be hidden under variant spellings or even aliases.

I assume they are the couple who had a son John TWYMAN (mother's maiden name HILDEN) whose birth was registered in the September quarter of 1911 ref. 2a 1807 at Canterbury

What about the John TWYMAN/Patience YEALDING marriage December quarter 1913 Canterbury ref. 2a 2007

The ref. (Canterbury & Swale 60) on the Kent Registration Services site refers to (I think) marriages that took place in St Alphage Canterbury should you wish to check it out http://extranet3.kent.gov.uk/sp/rois/marriagesearch.cfm

Casalguidi

[jax]

thank you all for your replies - they are all very much appreicated..

Yes I can confirm John Twyman born 1911 is my grandfather.  But it doesnt help me track down who Thriza was or rather who her parents/family were and where they were from...

I am pleased that Hilden is a known travelling name, as that gives some confirmation to the family rumour.. 

I cant find her as Hilden on census and I dont know what year she would have been born - she could well have been a lot younger than John (b abt: 1878) as he had a previous marriage, but again this is guess work..

I know she settled in a house with John, in Ramsgate and you would assume that there would be some registration of her death, but i cant find that either...  My mum seems to think that she lived with another man at some time after her husband (john's death in 1943) the problem is if she married him, I will never find her death certificate as I dont know what her surname would have changed to..

she is very elusive.. 

Anyway, thank you all again for taking time to solve this puzzle - Hopefully something will come up or fall into place soon.

Until then I will keep up the search - coz this is what our hobby is all about huh?   

[jax]

sorry, was just thinking.

seeing as how I cant find a marriage registration for John and Thriza, I wonder if they ever got married at all?  Especially as he was married before - it may have put him off or maybe he wasn't divorced, or perhaps he was a widow - maybe they didn't have the desire to actually tie the knot..

did gypsies have their own kind of wedding ceremony/registration process?

all guess work...

[casalguidi]

Hi Jax

Did you give this marriage any thought

What about the John TWYMAN/Patience YEALDING marriage December quarter 1913 Canterbury ref. 2a 2007

The ref. (Canterbury & Swale 60) on the Kent Registration Services site refers to (I think) marriages that took place in St Alphage Canterbury should you wish to check it out http://extranet3.kent.gov.uk/sp/rois/marriagesearch.cfm

Just wondering because you mention John TWYMAN had a son "Jerry" in your other post http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,130991.msg916925.html#msg916925

and there is a family in Staplegate (Canterbury) 1901 where the head is John TWYMAN age 25 b.Dover, wife possibly Patience and children including a son Jeremiah age 2 b.Canterbury RG13/796 folio 13 page 18

There is also a marriage John TWYMAN (one of the two possible spouses Patience WILSON) in Canterbury June quarter 1899 ref. 2a 1752

Casalguidi

[jax]

Hi Casalguidi

thanks for keeping me in mind with this, I realy appreciate it... 

This could be an interesting lead to follow, but I'm just not sure because my grandad was born 1911, and Patience yealding marraige was 1913. 

I think you may be onto something with the family in 1901 though, maybe that would tie in with the marriage to patience wilson in 1899..

Its possible that this maybe John Twymans first marriage, before he married my g grandmother Thrisa Hilden, certainly his age of 25 at that time fits..

Thanks Casalguidi - I will have to persue this further I think.

I really appreicate your help - and thanks again for making me look at the possibilities again.. 

jax