Desperately need help with this one......

[jericho]

When I first started looking into my family tree I was given a completed tree of my mother maternal side of the family.  I was so pleased that it was done I filed it away. And having come to a full stop on my mother's father side recently I thought I would have a look at her maternal side as we all know nothing should be taken for granted. Well it didn't take long to find a big headache and the people who have compiled the tree won't help as they believe they are right and they may be. However  to make matters worse they are unwilling to back up their sources or  give any certificates as proof. However they do always give me any additional information and photo's. Because I am having problems coming to grips with it all I though that perhaps if I share it someone may be able to help or come up with some suggestions.

I am desperately seeking some help and advice on where to look next with this problem I have found.

According to his death certificate my 3rd great grandfather William  Andrews was born abt 1798. He died in New Zealand in 1873.  This is what I know about William  he married his first wife Mary Ann Vaisey born abt 1802 in Gloucester  about 1819 (unknown where) their first child Charles was born in 1820 in Bradford on Avon. In all they had 8 children with 5 sons surviving childhood. Mary-Ann died on the 20 Sept 1833 at Twerton Somerset. And William remarried Mary Ann Pead  on the 27 April 1834 at Twerton Somerset they had 3 sons two of which died before their first birthday. On the 1841 census  the family are living in Prospect Buildings  Twerton with William's father Richard Andrews age 65 years. William and his wife Mary Ann and 6 sons emigrated to New Zealand on the 'Bolton' on the 29th October 1841. Leaving his father in England.

Initially the family told me that William parents were Richard Andrews and Sarah Moody, birth date for William 15 May 1799 in Tichborn Hants, but my own research came up with the William born on this date has the parents Richard and Ann. And possibly died in early childhood.
Sarah Moody according to family history died 1807 in Romsey Hants. Richard who married Sarah Moody died in 1838 so I don't see how he could have been on the 1841 census.

My problem is how do I find out where William was born, who his mother was and where Richard Andrews died. Any suggestions to help me further advance my  research would be
fantastic as I need to overcome this brick wall.  Hope I haven't confused anyone to much. Almost  beginning to wish I'd not taken a closer look at this tree....


jericho

[trish251]

Hi Jericho

I think everyone has gone down a wrong path at least once in their research & given the time spent tracing a "wrong" link it needs alot of proof to be convinced that the wrong path has been taken. Depending on how close you are to the original researchers, you may find it simplier to "go your own way" rather than continue to argue as to whether their reseach is correct.

Given the dates, the main proof of your families will only be in parish records, so when you say the family will not provide certificates - are you meaning parish records?  English death certificates (especially early ones - post 1837) contain very little information - you may get the name of a husband for a married woman - but very little other family information, so they are not much use to prove parents.

Both William's marriages were before civil registration - there are parish records with fathers mentioned on marriage - but in my experience not many.

You need to find a marriage entry for William Andrews and Mary Ann. This MAY (but only may) give a parent and/or a home parish for William. You can try be assuming he came from the marriage parish - or nearby. (I have found most of my marriages took place in the parish of the bride).

If you are searching from NZ (& I search from Australia) there is an added difficulty, and if you are determined to find the links, you may have to pay for parish registers to be searched. Queries on the appropriate county boards on RC may produce some results. You do currently have some exact dates for pre 1837 - they must have come from parish records (or tombstones) so you have good starting places for which parishes to search.

I'm sure someone else may have some better suggestions - good luck with the search

Trish

[Rena]

Have you studied the names of the children in each generation?  Usually each son named his first child in favour of his father - thus there would be several young William Andrews cousins running about in the area.

Why would William name his first son Charles when his father's name was Richard? 
1)Was there a prior birth out of wedlock? 
2) Was Richard an uncle/grandfather who raised him?

Are there enough baptisms of girls to give an indication of baby's paternal/maternal grandmothers and mother. Usually if a first wife died without giving birth to a (3rd)daughter being named after her - the first born daughter of the 2nd wife is named after the first wife.

Good luck,
Rena

[jericho]

Hi Rena

I have looked at my Andrews tree in New Zealand and there are no other Richard's  at all  the one found with the family in 1841 census aged 65 years is the only one I have to date. So that name was definitely not carried through to the next generation. In the Andrews tree I was given Charles is a name that has been used several times so if I have the correct Andrews line that could stand to reason. Because I don't know when William and Mary Ann Vaisey married or where, I can't check for other children especially any called Richard.  I do know that there were two girls  Mary Ann and Sarah  born in the first marriage and both died before turning 5 . Mary Ann parents were Thomas and Jane so they were not named after them. There were no girls in the second marriage. Have not considered that Richard could be anything else to William other than his father so I suppose it maybe worth considering.
Thanks for your help, hopefully I can solve this one.


jericho

[jericho]

Hi Trish

As I live in Australia and the original researchers live in New Zealand I have never met them but we have corresponded off and on for a number of years. I have all the early New Zealand details and certificates that I purchased so I know they are right. The hardest thing as you say is researching from such a distance. I have post on rootschat before for parish records about the marriage details but have not had much success so maybe now I will have to write to the parishes and see if I can obtain some further information. Maybe starting in the brides parish will provide some additional information as I know that the Vaisey family came from Kingswood by Wooton under Edge so that is at least a starting point. Thanks for your help and suggestions.

jericho

[trish251]

I have recently started looking (mainly via google) for places to buy copies of parish registers. I get somewhat frustrated with the Family history groups as many don't take credit cards & using other means to pay in UK gets expensive because of the cost.

You could try posting again on RC - there are often new members who would not have seen previous posts - also if you ask for information on where the parish registers may be rather than for a lookup you may receive extra information.

I have found that many of my English families do NOT follow the naming patterns (Scotland is much easier to trace via given names) - thus said, many family names do get repeatedly used & if I find a name in only one generation it does deserve a double check.

Trish

PS It was proven to me that one of my definite links was incorrect - most embarassing. I had one clue in that 2 folks I thought were married were listed living apart 1851 and both said they were widowed. I assumed they didn't want to admit they had separated. It turned out that the men involved were cousins - they were both of the same age & both married girls about the same age with the same name. The two I found in 1851 were widows. The distant cousin who gave me the proof was so very nice about it, but I learned not to so easily discount known information.

[jericho]

Trish

I certainly don't want to discount my Andrews family as I have become very fond of them and have found out lots of additional information about many of the very early lines.  But  like you I want to get the fact right, when I did question where they found the information about William Andrews birth and mother I was told them they received it from another researcher in England and of course it must be right, although I also know that my distant rellies did do some of their own research, but lots of what I have received about William has just confused me more, so that is why I have to find out for myself.

Like you I have also been looking for a place to buy parish records as the cost does become expensive and although I have found some great information over the internet, it would be easier living in England just for research purposes.

[trish251]

I also found the christening of William with the parents as you said on the IGI - probably worth noting that it is a christening - not a birth (and there can be a large or small time difference). Unless a large transcription error exists, the mother is certainly not Sarah. This film would be available from the LDS - are you near one of their centres?

Trish

[Rena]

As with most people I can't afford to buy every FHS booklet and CD which then is republished as 'updated' - quite often my family names haven't been in them.  I look for 'members interests' or 'look up' offers on local FHS which I find on GENUKI.  If that FHS does not have those boards I google first for 'family history' then google for the surname which quite often takes me to another local fam. history site.  For instance I found more information of my Sheffield born family on the Barnsley FHS site.  I hadn't been entirely satisfied with that line which my far flung cousins had worked out. The family were small farmers and ag.labs so obviously of the 2 possible entries in the diocese registers he would marry the local girl called Hannah and not Ann who lived 40 miles away.  However, the alternative FHS site had a piece about landowners and their coalmines where men would be uprooted and it actually gave a list of coal workers names, origins and 'current' addresses, including my ancestor's 'current' address in Leeds which put a whole new slant on the marriage and the children's names.

Regarding naming pattern some names weren't liked and were hidden by giving a child 2 names, or like my gt.grandmother Lucy who obviously didn't like her mother's names of Keziah Augusta and named her first child Gertrude but she conformed to tradition as her 2nd dau was given her mother-in-laws name.  Most people wanted to carry on the family name and in one of my lines I've found a brother had given 2 of his children names of his relative who couldn't have children - luckily I discovered a Will which corroborated the fact.  I've also been lucky enough to find my names in the a2a archives which you can either google for or go to by clicking on a Tab on the government site:  www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cheers,
Rena