Arthur and Sarah Wright

[Burto]

Hi,
I was just wondering if anyone could find anything on my GGGrandparents, Arthur (b. 1841 Derbyshire) and Sarah (b. 1851 Nottinghamshire) Wright? I'm after their parents. I think Sarah's maiden name was Wright too, but not sure.
Their daughter, my GGrandmother, was Evelyn Wright born 26/01/1887.
Many thanks.

[AMBLY]

Hi Burto

First of all - for background: 
In all the Census 1871 to 1901 incl, only the 1891 states Sarah as born Nottingham. The others all state Derby and is probably therefore correct. Do you have all these Census? Arthur in 1901 is a Woodcutting Machinist (Sawyer).

Arthur and Sarah are a married couple  with other WRIGHT family in 1871 and 1881: The head of that other family is a Thomas WRIGHT born abt 1831, Derby,  his wife is Elizabeth & Thomas has same occupation as Arthur in 1881 (Wood Moulding Machine Worker). The relationship of Arthur & Sarah to Thomas & Elizabeth is not stated - in 1881 they are Lodgers;  in 1871, they are enumnerated as their own Headed family, but are next door to Thomas', and at the same address/house nr (see furthur below for this census)

In 1861: the same Thomas & Elizabeth WRIGHT have a 12 yr old Daughter in the house named Sarah WRIGHT who is  born Derby, All their other younger children are born Notts. I assume you believe this Sarah to be the one who married Arthur WRIGHT,  bringing about your belief that Sarah and Arthur had the same maiden Surname. (see furthur below for this census)

Arthur & Sarah have 1 child, an 8mth old in 1871 - so looking for their marriage in Nottingham. Their marriage may have taken place shortly prior in Nottingham.
I think this marriage has to be the first document obtained to see what their names are and what their father's names are.

Probable marriage: IF they both are surname WRIGHT!
Dec Qtr 1869 - Nottingham  - 7b 484   
WRIGHT  Arthur
WRIGHT  Sarah

Have you the birth cert of Evelyn which states her mother is Mrs Sarah WRIGHT formely WRIGHT?


AS to Arthur - it's all supposition without first seeing the father's name & occ. upon his marriage - however: This seems to be the most likely ARthur born abt 1841 Derby - whom I can find  in 1841 and 1851, but not 1861: as follows

1851: Derby St Peter, Derbyshire
REF: HO107 -  Piece: 2143 -  Folio: 405 -  Pg 19;
ADDRESS: 6 Sackoveral? Street
Head: Thomas WRIGHT 75, wid, Joiner, b Chellaston Derby
Son: Robert WRIGHT 45, Carver & Gilder, b Derby
Wife of Son: Harriet WRIGHT 30, AT Home,  b Derby
Dau: Sophia WRIGHT 15, unm, Net Mender,  b Derby
Son: Robert WRIGHT 13, Errand Boy,  b Derby
Son: Arthur WRIGHT11, Scholar,  b Derby
Son of Robt W: John WRIGHT 9, Scholar,  b Derby
Dau: Sarah WRIGHT 5, Scholar, b Derby
Grandau of Head: Matilda WRIGHT 18, unm, At Home, b Derby

Are the children Sophia , Robert and Arthur all children of Robert Snr, from a  first marriage to a Sarah  and Harriet is Robert Snr's 2nd wife?  because:--

1841: St Peter  Derbyshire 
Hundred: Derby Borough 
REF: : HO107/199/12   - Folio: 4  - Pg2
ADDRESS: Devonshire Street
Robert WRIGHT 35, Carver & Gilder
Sarah WRIGHT 35,
Thomas WRIGHT 10
Sophia WRIGHT 5
Robert WRIGHT 3
Arthur WRIGHT 1

Now seeing this Arthur who seems mosy likely yours  - and realtionships are not stated in 1841, but looks like he is with  a poss brother named Thomas  who  10 yrs older.......this echo's the 10 yrs older Thomas & Elizabeth who your Arthur and Sarah are with in 1871/81.

And that's a worry :  because if Arthur and Thomas are brothers, and Arthur's wife Sarah is Thomas'  daughter as first appears she maybe-could be - then Sarah was Arthur's neice.....and that I think is illegal!?  SO perhaps Thomas & Elizabeth's daughter Sarah is not the same Sarah whom Arthur married....?

Let me catch a breath on this one....

Cheers for a bit!
AMBLY

[AMBLY]

Hi again 

First to continue Thomas WRIGHT - the one with whom Arthur was with in 1881/71:

Here they are in 1871 - family of Thomas & Elizabeth,  and of Arthur & Sarah - Thomas isn't at home, but I know it's his family (from the 1881):

1871: Nottingham St Mary, Notts.
REF: RG10 -  Piece: 3525 -  Folio: 65 -  Pg 45
ADDRESS: 16 Knots? Whole? Place (hard to read the street name)
Head: Elizabeth WRIGHT 41, Married , Housekeeper, b Derby
Dau: Charlotte WRIGHT 17, unm, Spool Winder, b Nottingham
Son: Thomas R WRIGHT 16, b Nottingham
Son: Walter 10, Scholar, b Nottingham
Son: Joseph WRIGHJT 6, Scholar, b Nottingham
Head: Arthur WRIGHT 30, Wood Mould Cutter, b Derby
Wife: Sarah WRIGHT 21, Sewing machinist, b Derby
Son: Thomas Arthur  8 mths, b Nottingham

And 1861:
1861: Exchange, Nottingham St Mary, Notts.
REF: RG9 - Piece: 2465 -  Folio: 69 - Pg: 24
ADDRESS: 2 Rye Hill Cottages
Head: Thomas WRIGHT 30, Sawyer, b Nottingham
Wife: Eliz'th WRIGHT 31, b Derby
Dau: Sarah WRIGHT 12, Scholar, b Derby
Dau: Charllote WRIGHT 8, Scholar, b Nottingham
Son: THomas R WRIGHT 4, b Nottingham
Son: Walter WRIGHT 3mths, b Nottingham
Brother: Robert WRIGHT 23, Joiner, b Derby

and 1851:
1851: Derbyshire St Peter, Derbyshire
REF: HO107 - Piece: 2143 -  Folio: 177 -  Pg 24
ADDRESS: 1 Chambers Building
Head: Thomas WRIGHT  20, Sailor, b Nottingham
Wife: Elizabeth WRIGHT  24, b Derby
Dau: Sarah WRIGHT 1, b Derby
(I'd bet  Thomas' occupation is supposed to be "Sawyer" but enumerator heard "Sailor")

Compare  that all - especially 1861 - to the 1841 above for Robert WRIGHT the Carver/Gilder  and his family, and old Thomas WRIGHT and his family....FInding Thomas the Sawyer  with a brother Robert in 1861 is the best clue/glue yet, becasue in no other Census do we find Thomas the Sawyer & Arthur being called brothers....though it looks as if they are.

Then: this looks like old Thomas in 1841 (and the name of ARthur's mother is therefore Margaret?)

1841: Derby St Peter, Derbyshire
REF HO107/199/13, Folio 10, pg 14
ADDRESS: Osmaston? Street
//
Thomas WRIGHT 60 Joiner - Y
Margaret WRIGHT 60 - Y
//
Harriet CLARKE 20, Ind - Y
Matilda CLARKE 8 - Y
//
Going mad - but I bet Matilda CLARKE is the 18 yr old grandaughter named as  Matilda WRIGHT in 1851, and Harriet is Thomas & Margaret's  daughter.

So We have I believe,  these WRIGHT folk (YOB approx)
Thomas 1776 and wife Margaret - his son:
Robert 1806 and wife 1) Sarah, 2) Harriet - his 3 sons by wife 1):
Thomas 1831, m Elizabeth, dau Sarah 1851
RObert 1838
Arthur 1840, m Sarah b 1851

Again: Thomas 1831 had a dau Sarah 1850, who is same name, age and POB as Arthur's wife yet it seems unlikely that Arthur married his neice, and therefore must suppose Arthur's wife is another Sarah -  who still, could be a relative?

With that in mind, there are at least 6  other Sarah WRIGHTs born Derbyshire who she could be....that marriage of your Arthur and Sarah is crucial to step backwards from 1871.

Cheers 
AMBLY

[Burto]

Hi,
I've just checked Evelyn's birth certificate (we have the original!) and it definately states that her mother was also a Wright before she married.
Where do I go now? How do I get hold of their marriage?
Is the one quoted above the right one?

[Burto]

Hi,
I was just wondering if someone could do a search for Arthur and Sarah on the 1891 and 1901 census for me please? Many thanks.

[Burto]

Hi,
I finally got the marriage certificate of Arthur and Sarah and it says Arthur's father was Robert Wright a Carver and Gilder and Sarah's was Thomas Wright a Wood Moulder...so Sarah married her Uncle (although he was only 8 years her senior) how was this allowed?! I noticed that they were married in the Register Office-I take it becuase they couldn't marry in church?

[AMBLY]

Hi Burto 

Great that the marriage cert it looks like we have the right family in Census  anyway  - but since it is illegal for a man to marry his brother's daughter  - I now wonder :

Perhaps Thomas jnr's wife Elizabeth brought an illigitimate daughter to the marriage ie: Sarah.
This would mean that Sarah has no blood relation to Thomas and therefore she was Thomas' stepdaughter only, and no blood relation to Arthur?  It was not illegal, I don't think - for them to have married in that case.......this website below says it would be OK as long as they were at least 21, which Sarah would NOT have been in 1869 (perhaps the reason for the Registry Office marriage and not in their church where the minister would have known who she was and how old?). Not sure though if the law was the same in 1869 as it is stated here:

http://www.weddingguideuk.com/articles/legal/prohibited.asp


This is Arthur & Sarah in 1891 & 1901....

1891: St Mary Nottingham, Nottinghamshire
16 Mayfield Cro.
Wife: Sarah WRIGHT 38, b Nottiingham (b abt 1853)
Son: Walter Henry 18, unm, Card Puncher -  lace trade, b Nottiingham
Dau:: Sarah Annie 15, b Nottiingham
Son: Joseph 10, Scholar, b Nottiingham
Son: Herbert Robert 8, Scholar, b Nottiingham
Dau; Evaline 3, Scholar, b Nottiingham
Son: Albert 1, b Nottiingham

The 1891 Head of House, Arthur -  is not at home. I think he’s here – possibly for work reasons

1891 -  Balsall Heath, Kings Norton,  Worcestershire
2 Belgrave Sq.
Lodger: Arthur WRIGHT, 50, married, Woodcutting Machinist, b Derby, Derbyshire
In household of: Emma JEFCOATE 40, widow, with her children, occ: Letting Apartments [lodg], b Birmingham
RG12/ Piece: 2352/ Folio 47/ pg39

1901: Nottingham South West, Nottinghamshire
65 Briar Street
Head: Arthur WRIGHT 60, Wood Cutting Machinist [sawyer], b Derby
Wife: Sarah 50, b Derby (b abt 1851)
Dau : Sarah A, 25, unm,  Shirt Machinist, b Nottingham
Son: Joseph 19, unm., Hosiery Machine (fitter), b Nottingham
Son: Herbert R, 18, unm, ?boal (ca?ler), [carm.], b Nottingham
Dau: Evelyn 14, b Nottingham
Son: Albert 12, b Nottingham
Dau: Elsie 4, b Nottingham
RG13 /  Piece 3168 /  Folio 61 /  pg11

In 1881 -  RG11/  Piece: 3362 /  Folio: 113 /  pg48
Sarah’s age is : 32 (abt 1849) Derby

In 1871 - RG10 /  Piece: 3525 /  Folio: 65 / pg 45
Sarah’s age is given as 21 (abt 1851) Derby

So - Sarah's age is wavering a bit in the post marriage Census.
But if we have the right Sarah, she is age 12 in 1861 (1849) and age 1 in 1851 (1850) - so a birth abt 1849/1850 seems the most likely.

Just wondering what was the age of Sarah WRIGHT at marriage to Arthur and who were the witness' ?

I wonder - if it is best now to check   Sarah's (suspected) parents - perhaps by getting the birth cert of one of Thomas and Elizabeth's younger children (Charlotte or Walter)  to see what Elizabeth's maiden name was and then to see when she married Thomas......? ie: was it before or after Sarah was born........

Cheers
AMBLY

[Burto]

Hi Ambly,
Thanks for all your help. I never thought that Sarah could be a step daughter...on the marriage cert she is 20 years and Arthur is 28. The witnesses were Charlotte Wright and William Taylor if that's any help.
I can't see a marriage for Thomas and Elizabeth on Familysearch or Freereg. Could anyone do a lookup for their marriage or for Sarah's baptism because I can't find her on there either?
Any help would be great.

[Burto]

1871: Nottingham St Mary, Notts.
REF: RG10 -  Piece: 3525 -  Folio: 65 -  Pg 45

Dau: Charlotte WRIGHT 17, unm, Spool Winder, b Nottingham
Son: Thomas R WRIGHT 16, b Nottingham
Son: Walter 10, Scholar, b Nottingham
Son: Joseph WRIGHJT 6, Scholar, b Nottingham

And 1861:
1861: Exchange, Nottingham St Mary, Notts.
REF: RG9 - Piece: 2465 -  Folio: 69 - Pg: 24
ADDRESS: 2 Rye Hill Cottages

Dau: Charllote WRIGHT 8, Scholar, b Nottingham
Son: THomas R WRIGHT 4, b Nottingham
Son: Walter WRIGHT 3mths, b Nottingham

Hi,
I'm trying to find the baptism dates of Charlotte, Thomas or Walter so I can buy one of their birth certificates, but I can't find any of them on Freereg or Familysearch. I've found a Walter Wright on FreeBMD for Mar 1861 Nottingham-does anyone have the Nottingham baptisms on CD who could do a look up please to clarify this Walter's parents were Thomas and Elizabeth?
Thanks.