Author Topic: Robert Bell  (Read 17474 times)

Offline ainsley

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Re: Robert Bell
« Reply #9 on: Friday 09 February 07 18:45 GMT (UK) »
Thank you very much Phrishy for all your help :) :) :) , I ordered the certificate earlier today so should have them within the next week or so.
By the way really must appologise I've been spellin your name wrong on every post :-[ :-[

Regards Ainsley :)

Offline ainsley

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Re: Robert Bell
« Reply #10 on: Monday 19 February 07 16:15 GMT (UK) »
Just recieved Roberts & Elizabeths marriage cert this morning. they were married 29th nov 1875, Roberts age is 25 he's a widower occupation Waterman & his father was James Bell( deceased) occupation Nailer. Elizabeth is 21, spinster & her fathers name was Alexander Leing occupation Sawyer, so that has definately got to be Elizabeth on the '71 census.

Offline Geoff E

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Re: Robert Bell
« Reply #11 on: Monday 19 February 07 16:39 GMT (UK) »
This looks a likely family in 1851

HO107/2430/33

15 East Tower St, Scotch St, carlisle
Sarah PORTER (wid) 60 Dressmaker, Carlisle
James BELL (son in law) 36 Nailor, Longtown
Margt (dau) 25 Carlisle
Sarah PORTER (dau) 13 Hand loom weaver, Carlisle
David PORTER (son) 11 Scholar, Carlisle
Robert BELL (gr son) 1 Carlisle

This could well be the Margaret who was a MORRELL by 1871.

1861
East Tower St
Margaret BELL (wid) 34 Cotton Winder
Robert 11
George 7
All born Carlisle

This was the bottom of what may have been the last page in the Enumeration District ... if there were any children on the next page, the page is now missing.  Where's young Maggy?

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline phrishy

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Re: Robert Bell
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 20 February 07 08:56 GMT (UK) »
They look like the same family don't they?

I had a look at the 1861 image as you did Geoff and think there is a page missing, there's just no // or line across at the bottom to finish things off is there?  I suspect that Margaret would be on the top line of the next page which isn't there.

I wonder if Ainsley was to go to the Record Office covering Carlisle, or one of the libraries with a local history section, having the 1861 census, would they have a complete copy?

In case you decide to try, this is the reference RG9; Piece: 3918; Folio: 108; Page: 30


Offline ainsley

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Re: Robert Bell
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 20 February 07 10:59 GMT (UK) »
Thnx Phrishy & Geoff for all your help, although I cant see me goin to the Carlise records office any time soon so maybe I will just have to keep guessing that one
                Ainsley

Offline Geoff E

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Re: Robert Bell
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 20 February 07 12:04 GMT (UK) »
I wonder if Ainsley was to go to the Record Office covering Carlisle, or one of the libraries with a local history section, having the 1861 census, would they have a complete copy?

In case you decide to try, this is the reference RG9; Piece: 3918; Folio: 108; Page: 30

I suspect that if anyone does look for an extra page, they will be unlucky.  Notice how the Folio number has something written beneath it thus ...

108
END.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline ainsley

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Re: Robert Bell
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 21 February 07 19:31 GMT (UK) »
Searched Ancestory's BMD's marriage's between 1861 & 1871, cant find any marriage for Christopher Morrell & Margaret Bell/ Porter.The only Christopher Morrell was married in Dec 1868 in S.Stoneham. Ive also search for the marriage of Margaret Porter & James Bell between 1841 &1851  &guess what no record , unless Iv overlooked them then there's no marriage for either!!! ??? :o

Offline phrishy

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Re: Robert Bell
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 21 February 07 22:54 GMT (UK) »
So far as I can see now you are dependent upon birth certificates - ideally Robert's but the problem is that there are quite a number of them around the approximate date.

There is, however, a George Bell registered Carlisle March qtr 1853 10b 361 which seems to fit both the George in 1861 with mother Margaret and brother Robert, also the George with same people and also Christopher Morrell in 1871 and also in 1881 with Christopher, Margaret and younger brother David Morrell.

You could put the proviso that the mother's name was formerly Bell/Porter and if it's wrong then they will refund part of your money.  If you really wanted to you could also ask them to do a three year search, paying I think it's £11.50 to find you Robert's birth certificate with the parents names as you believe them to be.

As for the marriages, maybe Christopher and Margaret didn't marry? it wouldn't be unknown.

I wondered whether Margaret's name wasn't Porter, if her mother Sarah had been married before or even if she had been born illegitimately but there's no conclusive evidence of that in the 1841 census either, I don't think you have this

Kirkyate, St Mary, Cumberland - All born in County
Francis Porter 60 Sawyer
Sarah 45
Margaret 15
Sarah 3
David 2
HO107/176/7 12/18

Although with a gap between Mary and Sarah's ages like that it is possible and she became known as Porter later, maybe using her official name for her marriage.

Offline phrishy

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Re: Robert Bell
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 21 February 07 23:16 GMT (UK) »
I'm not going to say what I think about this that I've found, in fact I don't think I know what to think.

On the IGI somebody has submitted a marriage for a Francis Porter to Sarah Bell 17 October, 1837     St Marys, Carlisle, Cumberland, his father is Francis Porter and her father is George Bell.

This marriage is just within civil registration and so should be listed if it's correct but what I have found is a marriage for Francis Porteous December quarter 1837 Carlisle 25/39 and one of the female names is Sarah Bell.