Author Topic: pembrokeshire records lookup please  (Read 11319 times)

Offline johngirl

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pembrokeshire records lookup please
« on: Wednesday 15 August 07 05:48 BST (UK) »
Don`t know whether anyone out there can help me as I have very little information on the people I want searched.Well here goes anyway. I want to find the birth record of James John born 10th June 1831 in Pembrokeshie.Sorry I have no idea what parish he was born in only that he was born in Pembrokeshire. His fathers name was William John but his mother is unknown.If we can find his birth record we may be able to find out who his mother was.Also find out what part of Pembrokeshire he came from. Iam desperate as my aunt who done most of our family history is dying of cancer and I wish to find out more on James John  and his father William John before she passes away for her.To find this information would make my aunt very happy as she has tried for many years to find out more about him. Thankyou to whoever takes up this mammoth task for me.To find James John we will be able to go further with our tree. William , James Johns` father is our brickwall.    bye for now Johngirl ;D ;D ;D
JOHN- Pembrokeshire Wales.  FREEMAN -England?
MEDLICOT -Monmouthshire Wales.
ISAAC -Gloucestershire and Liverpool.[Toxteth Park] SNOW- England .Convict. FRAZER- England.Convict.
DEAL -Ireland .Convict.
KEMP -Saint Mary Cray Kent.Eynsford Wilmington England.Convict.
BLACKBERRY -Whitechapel .Convict. CONDON -alias
DUFFY-Brighton England. Convict.
BANTICK -Ixworth Sussex England. Convict.
JONES England????[George]Convict.
ROSE-England. Convict.
All came to Tas

Offline Stifyn

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Re: pembrokeshire records lookup please
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 20 August 08 22:19 BST (UK) »
Hi,
In the process of doing some research on my family I came across your messages on this forum so I registered as I think I may be able to help you. My sister has been doing most of the research on our family and I think the James John your are referring to is brother to my Gt.Gt. Grandfather. You have other threads going on this forum and somebody has identified the family but incorrectly stated they were clay makers when in fact they were clog makers.

In the 1841 census William John is shown as married to Ann and they are both recorded as the same age as 35 . (The ages will not be accurate because for some reason they rounded the ages up/down for adults). They had quite a large brood with the eldest being Ezeikel, followed by my Gt.Gt.GrFather Thomas who was 12 and a James who was 10 and would therefore have been born 1831. The John clan were quite numerous and descended from a William John (also a clog maker) born circa 1766. There are a number of generations of the John family and all born in the same parish of Rudbaxton in Pemrokeshire in every census from 1841 to 1901. Obvioulsy the demand for clogs diminished and some of the clan went into farming and others moved away in search of work. In the case of my section of the family they moved to Swansea and became dock workers (late 19th Century) and is where we still live.
It gets very confusing because for one reason they liked biblical names and there are many children named Thomas, Martha, Esther, Enoch etc etc.  Also, a number of children appeared to have died in infancy. But in the John Clan from Rudbaxton in Pemrokeshire I can only find one with the name of James. The whole family were there in 1841 but they are not in the 1851 cenus which would indicate that they moved in the interim period and probably went to the valleys in search of work. The rest(or most) of the John
clan remained in the Crundale area of the Parish of Rudbaxton until others moved at a later date.
The only information we have on Anne who married William is that she was born in Pembs (as per 1841 census).
I have attached the census so that you can see the info.

Regards

Offline Stifyn

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Re: pembrokeshire records lookup please
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 20 August 08 22:43 BST (UK) »
I just realised after replying that your post was August of last year!!!! I thought it was posted a few days ago.......sorry>

Offline johngirl

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Re: pembrokeshire records lookup please
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 21 August 08 04:25 BST (UK) »
Hi Stifyn, :)

I would love this to be my John and hope that it is. Our John clan from Australia have been searching for James family for years. I did find that census with James in it as there arn`t many James John aged ten in the 1841 census. I`m not sure if it is our William John has it has that he was a Collier also was James in James` marriage cert to Martha Medlicott in 1849 in Ebbw Vale. I do know that they changed proffessions quite a bit though. James` wife Martha was born in Swansea Wales so maybe thats where James met Martha. I have many details of James` life in Australia and have all his history.Can you give me anymore details on this John family. I would really appreciate it.

Just a warning though I do appreciate you putting up the census for me but it is a breach of copyright on rootschat . The moderators will delete your post on you. You can put parts of a census on a board but not a full census. Just thought I would let you know.
Please get intouch through this post or you can private message me when you have posted at least five posts.

 Johngirl :) :)
JOHN- Pembrokeshire Wales.  FREEMAN -England?
MEDLICOT -Monmouthshire Wales.
ISAAC -Gloucestershire and Liverpool.[Toxteth Park] SNOW- England .Convict. FRAZER- England.Convict.
DEAL -Ireland .Convict.
KEMP -Saint Mary Cray Kent.Eynsford Wilmington England.Convict.
BLACKBERRY -Whitechapel .Convict. CONDON -alias
DUFFY-Brighton England. Convict.
BANTICK -Ixworth Sussex England. Convict.
JONES England????[George]Convict.
ROSE-England. Convict.
All came to Tas


Offline Stifyn

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Re: pembrokeshire records lookup please
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 21 August 08 09:24 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the reply and also the info about copyright :-[

My sister who has done most of the work on our family is also looking at this, well she was until we both went to bed late last night. She lives also in Swansea.

It is strange having read your posts about not having his mothers name , and I would have thought there would have been reference to that on his family bible. Also, the fact that you do not know if he had any siblings. I wonder if his mother disowned him due to him getting married at a very early age??

I noticed somewhere that members of your family have even been to the Pembs records office and that is something that my sister and I are going to do later this year and also visit the areas they lived. They all lived in a relatively small area in very small communities of  mainly Crundale, Wolfsdale Hill and Camrose.
Early deaths, second marriages makes it difficult to establish relationships in respect to father and sons. Also, it gets very confusing with the names and especially when a son is named after the father or grand father. Following the old Welsh patronymic system using "ap" (son of), then my father is Thomas ap Thomas ap Arthur ap Thomas ap William ap Thomas ap William.

The answer we need to find is what happened to the James in my family tree and his family and what happened to them. They obviously moved from the area which was a common trait in Welsh rural communities in the 19th century and they would either have moved to the valleys in search of work in the mines or the steel/copper industries, or they would have emigrated. So, I will try and establish (with the help of my sister) what happened to them to see if it is the correct James and will keep you informed.

Regards.

Offline luas

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Re: pembrokeshire records lookup please
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 21 August 08 09:38 BST (UK) »
Many people who visit Pembrokeshire now and see what a beautiful and peaceful place it is may be unaware that, at one time, there was a surprising amount of industry there.  All this has now gone, but you still come across relics when you explore.  Many people did move away in search of work, but there was work on the doorstep.  Quarrying, lime-burning, brickmaking and the crushing of roadstone were all carried out on a large scale.  It's ironic how little brick appears in local buildings of the 19th century.  It was all exported.  And who, visiting the small cathedral city of St. Davids, would ever guess that it once had a gasworks?

Something else worth pointing out is that Pembrokeshire, even the northern part of the county, was never very Welsh, although strenuous efforts are now being made to change that.  As far north as Newport, the county was known as "Little England beyond Wales," contrary to the current popular belief that this epithet only refers to South Pembrokeshire.  Isolated rural communities may have adhered to Welsh customs, but a glance at the names Crundale, Wolfsdale Hill and Camrose gives the clue - there is nothing remotely Welsh in their etymology.  In past centuries, because of its proximity to the sea and its isolation from everywhere else, Pembrokeshire was a very cosmopolitan place, with many languages being spoken.

Offline Stifyn

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Re: pembrokeshire records lookup please
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 21 August 08 10:06 BST (UK) »
Good point, but I dont think it was on a very large scale. There was Pembrokeshire slate but relatively small in comparison to the slate quarries in North Wales where they also suffered depopulation. Also, there was some coal mined but very small compared to Glamorgan and Monmouthshire.I think the population of Pembrokeshire peaked around 1870 at approx 90,000 and then went into decline and did not recover to that level until around 1950. I dont think Pembrokeshire suffered as badly in terms of depopulation as some of the other Welsh rural counties though.

Offline johngirl

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Re: pembrokeshire records lookup please
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 21 August 08 10:13 BST (UK) »
Hi Stifyn and Luas,

I would love to be able to comment on this but have never been to Wales.Would love to go there one day and see where my ancestors once lived.

 Johngirl :) :)
JOHN- Pembrokeshire Wales.  FREEMAN -England?
MEDLICOT -Monmouthshire Wales.
ISAAC -Gloucestershire and Liverpool.[Toxteth Park] SNOW- England .Convict. FRAZER- England.Convict.
DEAL -Ireland .Convict.
KEMP -Saint Mary Cray Kent.Eynsford Wilmington England.Convict.
BLACKBERRY -Whitechapel .Convict. CONDON -alias
DUFFY-Brighton England. Convict.
BANTICK -Ixworth Sussex England. Convict.
JONES England????[George]Convict.
ROSE-England. Convict.
All came to Tas

Offline Stifyn

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Re: pembrokeshire records lookup please
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 21 August 08 12:00 BST (UK) »
Do you use Google Earth?? If not, you should and it is free. You can zoom in and explore Wales and of course particularly the Pembrokeshire area. If you zoom in to Crundale (just north of Haverfordwest) you can view the countryside and look for photos that people have uploaded in the area. TO view the photos you must have "panoramio" loaded in the geography layer of Google Earth. Most of the John clan lived in the parish of Rudbaxton and most lived in the Crundale area and also 3 miles north west in the tiny villages of Wolsdale Hill and Camrose. It is not the same as visiting Wales but it gives you an idea of the area (albeit) from an aerial view. Explore further around the area and take a look at the coast (Pembrokehsire Coast National Park).