John Taylor Suffolk 1835/1837

[lavina]

I have his marriage certificate in Cockfield 1859 to Sophia Harris. His father William.
On the 1881 census born Pashley?, Suffolk, age 43.
1891 Bradley ?, Suffolk age 53.
1901 Balsham, Cambs age 64.
He is buried in Hopton, Suffolk cemetery, died 1927 age 92.

I am trying to find info on him or his father pre 1881. Has anyone come across this family on the census or parish records.

Regards

Lavina

[ricky1]

Hi
Also linked to this thread

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=268877.new#new


ricky

[CitizenSmith]

This looks like your John in the baptismal registers of Offham, Kent, where a good number of East Anglian Gypsies turned up each Autumn for the hop picking and fruit picking:

13 September 1863
Ezekiel Taylor son of John and Sophia Taylor, Travelling Tinman
(baptised same day as an Athaliah Shaw and a Joseph Gray - the latter's father described as being 'late of Littlebury' which is in Essex).

8 September 1867
Nathan Taylor son of John and Sophia Taylor, Traveller
and
Holland Taylor dau of John and Sophia Taylor, Traveller

(baptised same day: Goliath Buckley, Ocean Taylor d of James and Naomi, Lydia Harris, Leviathan Williams and Nelson Deighton).

In subsequent years, there are other children baptised - Taylors and Picketts among them - whose parents are described as being 'hop pickers of Ipswich'

These entries were passed to me by another researcher - there may be more info (such as Abode) in the original register.

The Taylors I'm interested in - John (born c1821), James (born c1822) and William (baptised 1820) - were brothers, all born in Long Stanton, Cambridgeshire. I've tracked John throughout his life, travelling in Suffolk and North Essex. He too had a son in Kent: Ladden Taylor who was born near Offham in Leybourne in August 1853.

So I wonder if the William of 1820 could possibly be your John's father?

One more ref:

Grundisburgh, Suffolk, baptism
Matilda dau of William Taylor and Sarah
14 February 1836
'a travelling tinker and grinder'

(An Elijah Smith baptised same day)

If any of this strikes any chords, I've much more Taylor info to share!

Sharon

[CitizenSmith]

Another small find today on a John Taylor of Hopton, Suffolk.

It comes from the Journal of the Gypsy Lore Society (1909, New Series, Vol. V, page 122) and seems founded on a newspaper report:
"On the 29th of April [1909] Stephen Hewitt (husband of Pamela Smith) of Great Yarmouth and John Taylor of Hopton were fined at Woodbridge for turning their horses onto growing grass."

Pamela Smith is a member of my Smith/Taylor family so this seems to be an indication that your John Taylor was closely associated with them, if not related to them. My family tended to travel the coastal area of Norfolk and Suffolk, from between Great Yarmouth and Woodbridge in the 19th century. From this it appears that they were following the same routes in the early 20th century too.

Sharon

[lavina]

Hi Sharon,

Sorry for the delay in replying, we've been away for 3 weeks. There are so many questions and answers, I think it will take a day or so to sort it out.
My John's father was William, tinman. James's father was William, tinman. Witnesses at James and Naomi's marriage was Mahaley/Matilda Taylor and Thomas Whatnell. Could this be a sister? (They married)
I have no information on William, but your names, dates and areas seem to fit.
I have seen the baptism records from Offham, Kent 1863 & 1867. Definately my family.
The newspaper report you mentioned is brilliant. John was a horse dealer, and the family settled in Hopton and had a home there and still have land there.
I haven't got all my notes available at the moment but I would like to keep in touch.

Lavina

[CitizenSmith]

Hi Lavina

This is very curious. I have a lot of information about the Whatnells too as they intermarried with my Smiths and travelled from Suffolk to Blackpool with them. Do I understand correctly that these witnesses married?

Look forward to hearing more when you've had time to digest.

Sharon

[lavina]

Hi Sharon,

Thomas Whatnell and Matilda Taylor married Mar Q 1861 at Stow, Suffolk 4a 626, I think it is them 1861 census RG9 1161, Ipswich. I found him a horse dealer and later a basket dealer .
I also believe a Whatnell married a Boswell.
John Taylor's daughter Alice 1875 married Nathan Smith 1882, Thetford. They had 4 girls and 2 boys. Any connection?
We are also connected to the Thorpes, Cambs, Beds.
I am glad you found the newspaper report of the marriage in King's Lynn. It must have been a spectacle.

Also William was a horse dealer and on the married cert of his son stated as   dec'd. That makes him less than 40!!!
Nothing is easy.

Hear from you later
PS  Do you know anything of Stephen Hewitt, I have a Hewitt married to a Smith. Not looked into dates yet.

Lavina

[CitizenSmith]

Your additional information is really useful. Thanks.

You're right about a Whatnell marrying a Boswell. James Whatnell married Adelaide Smith (first cousin to my 2xgreat-grandmother Lementeni Smith who was also witness to their marriage) in Stradbroke, Suffolk, in 1860 and they had a daughter named Athaliah Whatnell. She married Trafalgar Boswell in 1878 - Gordon Boswell of The Romany Museum at Spalding is their grandson.  They were part of the Blackpool Gypsy community, as was my Lementeni. I'm also in touch with a number of Whatnell/Smith cousins who still live in Blackpool and Liverpool.

And strange that you have Thorpe connections too. I've collected quite a deal of info on them due to the fact that a certain Ambrose Thorpe (born 1845) was partner to a Levaithan Draper who is connected to my family. (I collect all references to Drapers!)

On the early death of William Taylor: if he is the man we think he is, he is following the experience of his own father (also William) who died very young also.

On Stephen Hewitt: from memory I have him in the 1901 census with his partner/wife Pamela Smith but no children at that point so perhaps their marriage was pretty recent then. I also have some notes on their children, born in the early 20th century; and possibly a photo of him at a Smith family wedding. Happy to share all this if you can give me a couple of days to sort it out.

Sharon

[CitizenSmith]

Hi Lavina

A couple of new Taylor finds to add to your stock.

I now have a copy of the marriage certificate of Matilda Taylor and Thomas Whatnell, details as follows:

Marriage solemnized at The Register Office, District of Stow, Suffolk
18 March 1861
Thomas Whatnell aged 24, Bachelor, Licensed Hawker, Stowmarket, son of William Whatnell, Licensed Hawker
and
Matilda Taylor aged 23, Spinster, Stowmarket, dau of William Taylor (Deceased), Horse Dealer

Thomas Whatnell (signs)
X The mark of Matilda Taylor

Witnesses: X The mark of James Taylor
X The mark of Harriet Hammond
.............
Also, had a serendipity moment following a trip to the Suffolk RO a week or so back: found Sarah Taylor, mother of Matilda Taylor, by chance in the 1871 census on the same page as someone else I was looking for! My lucky day!

Here (RG10 1727 folio 12 - Raingate Street, Bury St Edmunds) Sarah Taylor is with her mother, Lizzie Robinson – which is how I recognised her. Lizzie is in fact Wisby Robinson, nee Smith. So the find confirms that Sarah was born Robinson (or Smith) - and that fact also makes her the sister of my step-3xgreat-grandfather, Sampson Robinson.

I have now obtained Sarah's death certificate – which reads:

3 Mary 1882, 8 College Street, Alms Houses
Sarah Taylor aged 68 years, Widow of William Taylor, Dealer
Cause of death: Apoplexy 4 1/2 days, Coma 4 days, Certified by Fran. W Clarke MRCS LSA
Informant: X The mark of Honore Bell, Sister, Present at the Death, 16 Raingate Square, Bury St Edmunds

Sarah Taylor was then buried in Bury St Edmunds Cemetery on 6 May 1882.

Hope this helps Taylor and Whatnell researchers alike – and Robinson researchers too.

Sharon