Lookup request for James Clark and Isabella Lawrance

[Traceyelizabeth]

Thanks.  I also found IGI is International Genealogical Index (is that what you meant?).

[roycymru]

Hi

Sometimes it does seem a smaller world than you think! I am a bit rusty on this side of my family as in recent months I have been concentrating on my Welsh side! John Laurance and Eleonora Shand is as far back as I have managed to trace on this particular branch. The only reference I have for John Laurance and Eleonora Shand marrying is that kindly found by JAP on the IGI site (otherwise known as familysearch.org, the "Mormon" site, Church of the later day saints. Yes, it is confusing!). Therefore it is very nice to have some independent confirmation that they actually did exist and got married (IGI references are quite often unsubstantiated and have just been entered by contributors). If you have more details that go back further than this I would be delighted to have them. Also if you have specific references for the marriage of John and Eleanora (so I can order) or a copy you can E-Mail me that would also be great.

I don't think there is anything wrong with your 1851 census records as my Elenora in 1851 (Helenora in 1841!) is Elenora Clark the daughter of Isabella Clark (ne: Laurance), and Granddaughter of Eleonora Shand. The specific references for Isabell (Laurence), her husband James Clark and their many children (Elenora, George, etc.). 1851 reference is Parish: Lonmay; ED:2; Line 10, Year 1851. 1841 reference is Parish: Lonmay; ED:4, Year 1841).

Your 1851 search ties up exactly with what JAP found on Freecen

"1851 has, at Nether Tyahesnook Lonmay, George 40 b. Rathen (he's in the IGI, b 1811, mother's name actually listed!), mother Eleanora S 65 b Rathen, sister Eleanor 38, sister Jean 28, brother Robert 27, servant (presumably sister) Christian 23 all b Lonmay."

and JAP also found an earlier entry in the 1841 Census (I wouldn't woory too much about some of the age discrepancies between 1841 and 1851, discrepancies are common and the 1841 ages tend to be more inaccurate):

Piece: SCT1841/219 Place: Lonmay -Aberdeenshire Enumeration District: 3
Civil Parish: Lonmay Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 3 Page: 5
Address: Craigellie

LAURANCE George M 25 Agriculture  Aberdeenshire
LAURANCE Eleonora F 54   Aberdeenshire     
LAURANCE Eleonora F 23   Aberdeenshire     
LAURANCE Jean F 20   Aberdeenshire     
LAURANCE Robert M 17   Aberdeenshire     
LAURANCE Christian F 12   Aberdeenshire
PETERKIN Alexander M 18 Ag Lab  Aberdeenshire     
FRASER Alexander M 13 Ag Lab  Aberdeenshire     
SHAND John M 20 Ag Lab  Aberdeenshire     
LEDINGHAM John M 42 Bookseller  Outside Census County (1841



As I said I am a bit rusty on this side of the family at present, but hopefully I have got the right end of the stick and I hope this clarifies things for you.

As JAP says Freecen has the Lonmay 1841 and 1851 Census returns for Lonmay so if you go to http://freecen.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl enter laurance (or variations of this) as Surname, select Year as 1841 or 1851 and choose Census place as Lonmay and finally click on Find it will bring up all the Laurences it can find on the Census for those years. You may find members of the family you were unaware of!

My branch is Eleonora Shand + John Laurance to Isabella Laurance + James Clark to Isabella Clark + Alexander Murray etc. If this branch of the tree is of any use to you I can send you more details

[roycymru]

Hi

Just had a thought re the missing Jean ?, Robert ? and a servant from your 1851 census search. Are your searches of the actual records (JAP's, FreeCen and IGI searches will be of transcribed records). If so are the entries you have found at the bottom of the census page? If so, and you click onto the next page you might find your missing entries there?? I have missed entries myself like this before so thought it worth asking.

[Traceyelizabeth]

Hi, thanks for all the info... i will be checking stuff out later and trying to find original copies of certificates to verify things.

in the meantime, here is the reference for John and Elizabeth:

21/09/1806 LAWRENCE, JOHN (O.P.R. Marriages 235/0020 0258 Rathen). 

i use www.scotlandsPeople.co.uk website to find all my certificated entries. 

I am just going to have a holiday in Scotland soon!  Can't wait to actually visit the area and the graveyards to see what i can find.

Have fun!
Tracey

[Traceyelizabeth]

Me again...

Is this info any good for you?  My cousin (i think) who lives in Forres, Scotland has managed to get graveyard inscriptions and there are some Clarks on it:

William Clark 29 Jan 1829
James Clark 14 Sep 1848
Jean Robertson 22 Feb 1848
John Clark 19 Sep 1848
James Clark 20 Mar 1872
Joseph Clark 27 Aug 1872
George Clark 18 Feb 1874
Isabella Lawrance 8 Apr 1882

At the top of the page it says 'Names and Dates on Stone Number 81'.  and, 'You will find the full text in booklet reference number AA175 from ANESFHS.  (Aberdeen & North-East Scotland Family History Society).

I hope this is all relevant to you!

[roycymru]

Thanks Tracey for the feedback and references.

The Head Stone potentially has lots on useful information for me (so thanks very much)

The later James Clark on the Stone (died 27 Aug 1872) must be my 3rd great grandfather as this ties up with the death certificate copy I got from Scotlands People for him. Isabella Lawrence was his wife and her death date would match up to the sort of time when she could have died, but I thought she would have been buried as Isabella Clark? (Or does anyone know if there is a reason why she could be listed under her maiden name?). From censuses I have a birth year of between 1807-1811 (obtained from Census Records) for her which would tie up with your Isabel Laurence of 1807 (do you have a specific date?). Despite Searching for the death of Isabella Lawrence (and various wild card options on this) or Isabella Clark I never managed to find the death of the correct Isabella on Scotlandspeople. Therefore if this is her this is another piece of the Jigsaw completed. James Clark's father was also James Clark so the earlier James Clark could well be the death of his Father. His wife from James Clark ("juniors") death certificate is listed as Jane Robertson, so it is not inconceivable that this could be the Jean Robertson on the gravestone!

Does your Cousin (or any head stone experts out there) think is is likely to be a Family Head Stone (seems possible to me) and also whether it is traditional for the wifes on such headstones to appear under their maiden names??

I hope you have a great time in Scotland, although born and bred in Wales I had many happy summer holidays in my younger years staying with our relatives in Inverurie, Abderdeenshire.

Roy

[Traceyelizabeth]

Thanks for your suggestion of looking on the following page... can't believe i was stupid enough not to think of it!  I found the missing people!!    Will read your previous email properly today and come back later with hopefully more info...

Tracey

[Traceyelizabeth]

Do you know if it's normal for children to have more than one baptism certificate??  I have found correct entries for all of the Lawrence children born between 1807 and 1828.  The earlier children turn up on 2 baptism certificates for different parishes.  They are listed along with the new 'babies' so I know I have the correct entries.

?

Also, I am stuck because I don't have John Lawrence birth/baptism entry (he was probably born sometime around 1780 as he married Eleanora on 21st sept 1806).  I also know he died before 1841 as eleanora is a widow on the Census.  I can't get any further back without a birth/baptism entry.  How frustrating!!!!  don't have a clue what his mother and father might have been called.

I'm STUCK!
Tracey

[roycymru]

HI Tracey

Sorry can't help with the baptism query (Can the administrators advise Tracey?)

If you are confident of whose John's brothers and sisters were are you able to find any of their births/baptisms which should then give you the names of John's parents?