"MISSING" Cornelius George Lawrence.....UPDATED and none the wiser

[caroline hammill]

Thank you both for your replies. However, since last January i have found that  Charlotte Derrett was a Lawrence before she married, so......am i right in thinking that Charlotte said that Cornelius was her son....like you say, to save face...AND... Matilda (the real mother of Cornelius) was another child born out of wedlock to Charlotte and thats why she has the surname Lawrence on Cornelius Birth cert......
Does the above make any sense !!!! LoL

CAZ   

[Tiffy]

Dear Caz

Some things recorded by or to enumerators of these censuses can be confusing.  In my case, my grandfather Arthur was born 1893.  His parents and siblings show on 1891 census.  By 1901 his father was dead, but whilst most of his siblings were still residing with his own mother he, in fact, showed up on the 1901 living with a family by the name of Hooton and registered as "grandson".  To my knowledge we have no Hootons in the family tree.  This was either informant or enumerator error.  Another research I did for someone, showed that his grandmother was illegitimate herself, and was bought up in the same household as her own mother with both daughter and illegitimate grandchild being classed as daughter to head!!!  The only chance now I think is to trace when Charlotte Derrett became widowed and compare HER husband's date of death to the birth of Cornelius and I think that will clinch the deal.  I will have a go, but can't promise anything.

Regards

Tiffy (not my real name 'cos when you register they say don't it's the name of my dog!!!) But I'm 55 with 3 kids and feel silly using the name, but there you go

[caroline hammill]

Hi Tiffy....like your dogs name by the way...LoL..

I have Cornelius George lawrence Birth Cert, on it it says that Matilda Lawrence is the Mother, no father was listed and Charlotte Derrett was the informant.

Charles Derrett and Charlotte Lawrence married 6-6-1832, now Matilda Lawrence (Charlottes Daughter) was born c1829....so obviously she was born with father unknown for what ever reason...

So as far as i know i have sorted that little problem........except who does Clara Herbert  aged 7 on the 1871 census belong to, cant seem to find her on any other census returns....could she be Charlottes Daughter...Charlotte, she's down as Grandchild.
I've not found a single marraige for any of Charlotte c1809 Daughters   

Dont you just love these family brick walls.

I've ordered Cornelius George Lawrence Marraige cert today.....hopefully that might shed some light on who his father might be...........who am i kidding..

CAZ

[Tiffy]

Hi Caz, have been GLAZED at the pc since my last message looking for you.  Your Herbert girlie is shown as a servant on one of the censuses, but I'll have to go back through them again, I know that she was living with Charlotte Derrett (unmarried) and her sister Elizabeth (unmarried) from memory their ages were 39yrs and 43 yrs (ish) and still single.  This Herbert is shown as their niece but will have further look at them again, to try and trace here.

According to the approx birth dates on the earliest census 1851 they go:-

Charlotte Senior about 1810
Matilda 1829
Ann 1837 (Big gap between her and Matilda)
Elizabeth 1839
Charlotte junior 1842
The elusive Cornelius 1848.

It is very possible that Matilda's real surname was Lawrence (illegit) but commonly called Derrett.  I think that the father may not be showing because both parents had to be present to register, for father to agree to child having his name out of wedlock OR Cornelius was given Matilda's real surname as a single mum.  It is looking more like he is a real Lawrence with the father being kept completely out of the frame, and if this is the case, you will never find Cornelius' father.

You can only hope now, that due to his planning to marry Sarah Compton, that he received the TRUTH from Matilda as to his real surname and that he gave this information on his wedding certificate.  How long will it be before you get the certificate?

Best regards

Tiffy

[Tiffy]

Me again Caz,

Have looked Familysearch.org and Ancestry bdm etc but can only find Clara (Clarah) living with Charlotte right up to 1901 census aged 36 and still referred to as niece.  Surely, this can't be another illeg in the family but this time to Charlotte junior!!  Clara's dob appears to be 1865.  As Charlotte and her sister Elizabeth remained single through to 1901 I looked for a marriage for the only other sister Ann Derrett who I cannot find under Derret to see but cannot find her or a marriage, but no luck.  Looks like another brick in your wall!!  However Clara's birth must be registered and the nearest I got to on Ancestry is

Clara Matilda Herbert  1864 March Quarter Vol 6a if that is any help.  There was another Clara but she was 1861 and that is too far a gap, even for the approx birth dates given for her on the census records and I thought the middle name of Matilda a bit of a coincidence, and maybe it is, but still not beyond the bounds of possibility that it could be another one of Matilda's, but not good with maths so will let you work out how old Matilda would have been if she had given birth to Clara.  All suggestions but it might help.  By the way, how much are you paying for copy birth certificates these days.?? 

Regards again

Tiffy (Lynne)

[caroline hammill]

Hi Lynne, thank you ever so much for your time and effort in trying to sort out this family......which are becoming quite clear to most of them having "Father Unknown" !!!!!

I agree with you about Clara MATILDA Herbert, it does seem too much of a coincidence for this not to be her, i'll order her birth cert tomorrow...they're £7 online.

I'll probably find that this Clara is another one of Matilda's kids......LoL
Hopefully Cornelius's wedding cert will turn up by the end of next week....i'll keep you posted.

Caz      

[caroline hammill]

Morning Lynn, just to let you know i have ordered Clara Matilda Herbert's Birth cert this morning, dispatch date is 12th Jan.......we wait and see who this one belongs to !!!! Just hope it does'nt open up another problem for me to solve, seem to be having plenty of them lately....with both sides of my tree. 
Cornelius George Lawrence & Sarah Ann Compton Marraige cert dispatch date was 11th Jan.

CAZ

[Tiffy]

Hi Caz,

Been thinking.  As you say, cannot find marriages for any of Charlotte seniors daughters and its Ann and Matilda that seem to have disappeared.  Leaving Charlotte jnr and Elizabeth remaining together, at least to 1901, with Clara having lived with them since 1871. Although at this stage, everything is supposition, but all 'input' helps doesn't it.  How about, unless Clara was the daughter of the missing Matilda (who I doubt) or of Ann (which again I doubt) the, she could be Elizabeth's (due to Charlotte junior, the head of house informing this to the enumerators through each census) she would be Charlotte's niece.  Either Charlotte and Elizabeth were very benevolent or, the real mother was incapable of bringing up a child (imbecile or backward or something) every little helps.  Money was short in those days,  and I would have thought that even if Ann or Matilda had married, the child would have been bought up in a household, at least, as stepson/daughter, if you see what I mean.

Anyway, am now so intrigued myself, can't wait to hear results of your certificates, please don't forget to let me know.

Regards

Tiffy

[caroline hammill]

Morning Tiffy, i sure will let you know. Cant wait for the certs to turn up and see what they throw at me........

With both sides of my family i have mothers giving birth to kids with fathers unknown, me and a contact last year found that a rellie had 2 boys and sent them to Barnados Children Home, 1 of the boys was sent to Australia and is still alive today, we have made contact with a Grand daughter of his, and then another one of her sisters had another 2 kids and packed them off, so i wont be shocked by anything !!!!!
At least not now anyway....LoL   

CAZ