Strandown?

[ard]

Sorry Mary    I didn't look at the date you had submitted as carefully as I should have because I had the marriage between those two at a different date in my records (and my head) and had assumed it would be the same!
What I had was the IGI records the marriage for Samuel Ferguson and Agnes Boyd in 1863:
Samuel Ferguson  Birth:  1838   Of, Holywood, Down,
Agnes Boyd  Birth:  1842   Of, Holywood, Down, Ireland
  Marriage:  About 1863   Of, Holywood, Down, Ireland

Of course, for the above, the source isn't stated and there is the word "about" to consider.


So, yes indeed, if they had married in 1858, that could include James and John. I must admit, having them marry in 1863 would fit tidily with my "second marriage theory"! I'm a little more confused now.


I'm not sure what to think. So many "if"s:
That perhaps there the error is in the "family memory" about the "Black" surname and it should  in fact be BOYD - that it could be that BLACK was a previous generation?

I'd wonder though why there would be record of their marriage, and birth of two children (Agnes & Ann) but none of James or John? Is it that the Samuel and Agnes Boyd are simply a different family and the names coincidental.

There is also the problem that Agnes' age in the 1881-91 & 1901 Workington censuses are inconsistent (around 1846,1843 & 1840 respectively!) and so I'm not sure of her date of birth - 1846 the latter would only make her 12 in 1858 and at 15, very young to be a mother of James (which is why I thought she might be a step-mother!) Then the potential death record (Free BMD) puts her age 55 in 1902 (ie b 1847ish) - 1840 to 1847 is quite a range. She must have been one of those people who didn't like people to know her age!

I hadn't sent away for the death certificates of the Agnes Ferguson or Samuel Ferguson I found on free BMD because it's a bit expensive when I'm not sure enough that they are the correct people (there were other Fergusons in Workington at the time);   And the fact that family stories about burials weren't consistent either makes it even iffyer. Maybe I should reconsider.

HMMM while I'm a little further, I also seem to be back at the beginning!

ard

PS I realize that did in fact have the death certificate of Agnes; I'd forgotten because it didn't have too much revealing info. I have since sent aways for Samuel's and their daughter Annie's. I'm pretty sure now that the Samuel's certificate of death in 1880 is that of my gg grandfather - which at least tells me that he had died in Workington and was also a labourer at the ironworks like his sons

[ard]

Thanks Christopher - I'll look into those. Isn't Annahilt connected to MAGHERADROOL ? Is that near holywood and strandtown?
cheers,
ard

[aghadowey]

I'd wonder though why there would be record of their marriage, and birth of two children (Agnes & Ann) but none of James or John? Is the Samuel and Agnes Boyd are simply a different family and the names coincidental.

IGI is not complete so there are often births, etc. 'missing.'

IGI lists 2 children for Samuel Fergusson and Agnes Boyd:
1. Agnes born 5 Oct.1864 Holywood, Co. Down.
2. Anne born 31 Mar.1870 Co.Down.

If the above records are correct then it looks like Samuel Fergusson and Agnes Boyd liked in Holywood area of Co. Down.

Note: Agnes, Nancy and Ann/Anne/Annie can be used interchangably in Ulster.

[ard]

Then it is even more likely that Agnes died and the next would be named Ann...

[sucram]

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/PHOTOSwords/MagheradroolAll.htm#old
magheradrool is near ballynahinch,annahilt is between ballynahinch and hillsborough.  hollywood is between belfast and bangor. so hollywood would be a good bit away from magheradrool area.

[ard]

HMMM Even more to think about (!) but it will make it all the more fun to have these places to explore to try to piece it all together - that is,  when I do take that long awaited trip to Ireland... not for the near future unfortunately!

One of the stories passed down is that there was a problem with regards to a burial. The family was refused the right to bury a mother or sister (??) in the family plot because it was too full and then they allowed a Catholic to be buried following that because of some high ranking connection.

This is interesting because the link you sent speaks of the joint denominational burial ground and refers to problems (I just glanced, need to read further) This story is given as the reason why there was the change in church affiliation away from the Anglican. I was thinking that this may have happened in Workington because that cemetery is also shared but maybe it was in Ireland after all? All very curious.

Thanks 
ard

[Christopher]

Excuse me ... may I join in this discussion again please

I looked for Black in Strandtown. The Public Officers section of the 1880 Directory
of Belfast and the Province of Ulster shows the following ... Town Clerk and Solicitor -
Samuel Black, Glen Ebor, Strandtown ; office, Town Hall, Victoria Street. www.lennonwylie.co.uk/BSD1880HISTpart2.htm

I also had a look for a Ferguson connection with Strandtown and succeeded in finding one ...

Whytes, the well known Dublin Irish Art Auctioneers and Valuers have a picture by Belfast artist Theodore James Gracey, RUA, (1895-1959) on their website. T. J. Gracey lived at Ferguson Drive, Strandtown. www.whytes.ie/4PrintCatalogue.asp?Auction=20040427

Robert Ferguson, Sydenham House, Strandtown is listed as a Magistrate in the Office bearers section of the Down County Directory (from Bassett's County Down Guide and Directory, 1886) www.libraryireland.com/articles/OfficeBearersDownBassett/index.php Ferguson Drive may have been named in his honour.

Robert Ferguson, Sydney Street West, Belfast signed the 1912 Ulster Covenant at Belmont Church and Strandtown Hall. http://tinyurl.com/3ups5l

Why are there so many references to Boyd? One of the posts from ard says that "there seemed no doubt that James' mother was Agnes BLACK  "daughter of a Sir BLACK"" Boyd seems to be a bit of a red herring until the Black connection can be eliminated.  

Christopher

[ard]

Certainly, Christopher... I welcome your input!

Despite the talk of "Estate" and a farm, I can't help but think that my Fergusons were less well-off - my great grandfather worked in the Ironworks in Workington and his father Samuel was apparently a labourer. If there had been better times before, it may have been something to do with Samuel being in the Crimean war that altered something (there was some allusion to that in my notes)
My only hope of a family link might be in finding the name of a Ferguson Anglican minister in the right place and time period (mid 19thC?)! It was over 20 years ago that I got the information from my great aunt and there is virtually no one left of even my father's generation to ask. But to offset that, the internet is such a wonderful resource and I must add, Rootschat is GREAT 

ard

[ard]

Re: "Boyd seems to be a bit of a red herring until the Black connection can be eliminated." :
Yes and no -
It might be BLACK that is the problem. I was quite happy to accept that James' mother was Agnes BLACK until I found the marriage of Samuel to an Agnes BOYD and the daughter Anne which fits the age of James' sister Annie. I was also quite pleased with my theory that Agnes BOYD was a second wife (based on an "about 1863" marriage) until Mary supplied the 1858 date.

But even with that, I wouldn't have thought as much about it if my notes didn't also have mention of Ann Boyd - whom my aunt seems to have thought might have been the name of Samuel's mother. Now I'm wondering if it weren't the other way around (that Agnes BLACK was his mother, not that Samuel was Ann BOYD's mother ). Family stories aren't always reliable - ours aren't at any rate; and my great aunt was in her 90s when I got most of this information and that was over 20 years ago. I find the stories usually contain truths but not always as evident as they first appear. So I need to keep the Agnes BOYD open as a possibility.

On one page of my notes it says that Samuel died in the Crimean (perhaps he did, perhaps not) and it was then his brother "inherited the estate" and then became and Anglican minister. 

I also have that James "was angry that his brother was not buried in the cemetery with his sister because it was full (he was buried a few miles away); and when a Catholic Mayor whose wife was Anglican was allowed to be buried there- James switched to the Presbyterians and  left Ireland for Scotland."

Unfortunately there are time problems with this story - the reaction is perhaps more attributable to Samuel's generation - for in 1881 James was already in England, and just a teenager living with his siblings and widowed mother. The notes also say James had a brother Jack who died young "not buried in cemetery". I have it that he had a brother John, and he didn't die so young that he didn't have a chance to marry and have at least five children. James' sister Annie did die relatively young, in her late teens, but that was in Workington. But if it were Agnes Boyd who was their mother- then there is the earlier child Agnes. Might there have also been a boy who died as a child? So perhaps it was Samuel who left the church in disgust. This would make more sense ](and now, in view of the information that Samuel died in Workington in 1880, ever more likely)
As you can see, there is still room for an Agnes BOYD in the picture. I don't like to discount possible trails - by following them they might end up being disproved but if ignored, I might as well just stay standing looking at the brick wall!

ard